Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school "School readiness" and etiquette

In my area, virtually all the options for keeping a kid interesed have a "school readiness" agenda. It's suffocating, but that's another story.

I take the kids to these things because they really need the variety in their activities. Recently I've got a lot of flack, and heard a lot of flack directed at others for not enforcing "school" rules, such as sitting quietly in circle time, staying to the end of any programme (even free play), accurate copying of craft projects (use three white, then a red, repeat, around the edge of your page...) you get the picture.

I don't want to stop using the family resource/early years centers, but I don't want to enforce what I feel to be age inappropriate rules. The programme staff are split on honouring the open nature of their centers, and showing obvious dissaproval though they can't acutally ask me to comply.

What would you do? Is there a clever middle ground?

-Mich
(more in the almost-three-and-just-hit-the-boredom-wall files)

We had one of those family resource centers where I lived when my child was that age but I never did go to it. Not on purpose, I think I just never got around to it and when I called them a couple of times they didn't call back.

The sitting in a circle quietly I could see trying to work with...especially if an adult is reading to them. But an active 3 1/2 year old is tough! It takes a long time to learn this. When I went to school we never heard of the concept until our few hours of Kindergarten...that was in the Jurassic period.

When my child was two she "graduated" to the lap-sit level of the library storytime program. We had been going since she was a few months old, but librarian who ran it expected your child to sit in your lap and not wander around once they were two. My child wouldn't sit in my lap quietly and listen (she'd listen while playing though) but since it wasn't acceptable it wasn't a good match so we were storytime drop-outs.

The staying until the end of a program, for a 3 1/2 year old...? I could see encouraging a child to stay if someone is in the middle of reading a story, but if they're struggling to get out of there or making noise, I'd think it's really better etiquette to leave and not disrupt the others.

The accurate copying of craft projects etc...it's bad enough when older kids have to do this in school and all pics on the wall are the same, but 3 1/2? Maybe you could just ignore the disapproval for that one. And keep all of this in mind as an education for yourself when scoping out preschools and schools.

When my child was that age we spent alot of time going to nature centers where sometimes they had a little story or craft but it was mostly exploring outside or inside with hands-on things. Also botanical gardens were a real life-saver. Or those hands-on children's museums, you can get a membership. Are there places like that you could go to in addition to the resource center to break things up somewhat?

I guess I've always been spoiled for choices but I've always lived in or just outside a major or mid-sized city my entire life.

We live in a major city, and we go to....[snip excruciating list] Uh. yeah. We go out a lot. The school-prep thing is pervasive, even at museums and the private playdates, though one can usually avoid an actual circle time People think we're crazy, but if we don't do as much, things get impossible really quick. I tried doing a "detox" and just staying in for a few days recently, because I was a bit run-down from a trip to New York. Not. Good. Anyway, that's why I don't want to drop the drop-ins, we really do need to fill a slot here and there.

DS won't sit in circle because he's bored out of his tree. He's used to me filking all the songs they sing, and he's in a phase right now where no-one is ever allowed to sing anything strait, let allone "rolly polly." He doesn't like the group stories because they're too simple (which I think is a giftie thing), and because they're read at about 1/4 speed (or much less) compaired to what I do. And he doesn't get to ask questions, which is a deal-breaker for him, in any context.

(I know, my teacher friend tells me we're screwed for Kindergarten, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.)

And he's not 3.5 -- he's 2:10, not even three yet. I have to get though another 1.5 years before I even get to send him to kindergarten 8P. So screwed.

-Mich

(re:preschool -- can't send him to preschool, gov't regs require a 2 HOUR NAP!?!?!?!?!??! the first hour they can't even play quietly, they have to lie on the cot and "rest." Sorry, did I vent out loud? )

I can't really sympathize.  We don't really get out much.  We're going to a ranch to watch them shave cows tommorrow.  Yeah!  We got something to do !!!  We do have story time at the library, but only for two weeks in the summer.  Ha!  The first year he wouldn't sit with the other kids unless I sat with him.  Last year (at 3) he sat with the other kids, but I had to keep "shushing" him and telling him to listen to the teacher.  We have one more summer story time to practice then this fall he's off to school.  Yep, we're screwed too.  He's mastered the art of getting other kids to play with him and that's what he thinks kids are there for.  

If u were me, I'd just work with my toddler on the development I think he's at, enjoy the activities, smile at the ladies, and assume the best- that they see you as a mother actively parenting her toddler the best way you see.  If they really think anything else, well, what do you want me to tell you?  You ARE teaching him about circle time and paying attention just by taking him there regular.  Baby step.

Maybe you want to talk to him about the patterns.  You've said he talks to you a lot.  Even if nobody else understands what he's saying they'll see there's a conversation happening.  Try to coax him into describing the coloring he's doing.  You don't have to tell him to follow their pattern, if you're talking to him about his coloring you're still doing the lesson, right?

Dumb question: are 2.5 yr olds "toddlers" where you guys are? They're "preschoolers" here....

(LaTexican, I'm thinkin about that. And given the time, sleeping on it ;))

Honestly, if he's not even 3, and he is bored/disinterested in these activities, I would try to come up with something else to do. Forcing him will only be counterproductive, IMO. He does not need to be "ready for school" at this age, he needs to explore the world in his own way. It sounds like, for example, he would prefer to just explore the public library on his own rather than going to circle time. I would just do that. But I totally get the need to get out, my ds8 was just like that when he was that age.

And I would totally blow off the craft expectations. That is just ridiculous.

As for the preschool, it sounds to me like they are misunderstanding the regulations. Those regulations usually say that you have to provide kids with the opportunity to nap for 2 hours, not that you have to force it on them. The parents still make the decisions on this. As long as they are not disruptive, then they should be allowed to do something else. Heck, my kid WAS disruptive at that age and the daycare worked with me to find activities for him to do. They never expected him to sit quietly with nothing to do for an hour!

Where do you live? I am going to have to google this now, because I need to know! lol

Do you live in Ontario? (I am guessing because you said you visited New York). If so, this is what I read regarding nap regulations in Ontario:

"Each child who is in attendance for six or more hours in a day and is between 18 months and five years is required to have a rest period NOT EXCEEDING 2 hours following lunch.
•
A child under 44 months of age as of August 31 of the year who is unable to sleep is not to be kept in bed (cot/playpen) for LONGER THAN ONE HOUR and is allowed to get up and participate in quiet activities."

So, this says that are not to exceed a 2 hour nap period and that a child that isn't sleeping cannot be kept in bed LONGER than 1 hour. It says nothing about not letting them get up sooner, if the parents want them to. These statements regulate maximums, not minimums.

I don't know if these are the right regulations for your area, but most such regulations are similar. The idea is to protect the kids, not to force them to sleep or be inactive. It is so daycares can't keep kids in their cribs/beds all day even when they are awake.

This probably isn't that useful to you, but it just got under my skin that so many places COMPLETELY misunderstand these guidelines and their purpose! I hope that you are able to find some alternative activities for your DS. IMO, since he is not going to be going to school for another 2+ years, I don't see why he needs to be "ready" right now.

I'm getting a real mirror on how crazy things are around here!

So, these are drop-ins where circle times are somtimes convened, and official policy is that kids are _not_ required to participate. The craft tables are not even staff-supervised. Other parents read the instructions printed on cards and left on the tables and take these as gospell, officially they are intended to help parents who can't think of ways to support arts&crafts for their kids, and who need something to hook onto. Then they find it "distracting" for my kid to be making hearts on st. patricks day, or building houses instead of using the glitter glue. I think the expectations are unreasonable for even the most compliant kids, and so this "distracting" problem is pretty big for parents who are trying to get thier kids to follow such specific instructions.

Yup, we're in Ontario. Frankly I'd never looked that up. I'm ammused and appalled all at once. It's taken as gospell that kids HAVE TO NAP, or the center will get in trouble. I've never had anyone do anything but commiserate on it.

We go to the library by ourselves. We have fun, but then we have the other half of the day to fill We usually do the drop-ins when we have activities that leave gaps in the day, 2.5 hours in between things, not enough time to get home, too much time for just lunch, or we really can't afford another lunch out and need a place to eat a bag lunch etc. In our area, community center programmes provide no playspace before or after (they lock the doors) so a half-hour swim class can mean there's not enough time to get to the science center, but there's also a big gap before the library opens at 1, etc. Are these problems anyone else has had, or are we really that crazy?

Ugh. I mostly just ignore it when people are annoyed with us and chalk it up to obsessive pushy parents, but I've had this comming at me from all sides lately, and I was thinking maybe I was out of line. At least the ground will start drying out... uhh... not that soon.

-Mich

LaTexican: I think part of the problem is that I talk to him too much. Everyone is always interrupting and I think they start comming up with reasons to be annoyed when I everntually ask them to please let my child finish his sentence, or when I say I need to talk to him for a bit.

The main thing I'm getting from these responses is that something over here is out of whack, and everyone assumes that if I'm getting this kinda thing, it must be becasue it's a structured programme or people think I'm not staying close enough to my kid.

Which means, I think, that I'm right (na nana boo boo) in thinking that at an unstructured drop in it should be ok for my kid to do what he's doing. So it's just the social issue. How much do I want to piss people off? People my kid might go to school with in a year and a half & have to get allong with. (here kindy starts at age 4) arg.

-Mich

I'm sorry your having such trouble finding a place for a more free spirited type activity in those centers. I'm originally from Canada but the opposite side and things must be different (BC) because that age is a toddler there, not a pre-k'er and Kinder starts at 5 with a solid date/to age cut off. Pre-k was for age 4 (but it wasn't government run, it was tuition based)

I'm one of those people who didn't do a lot of stuff outside the home when my kids were that age. We did special trips once and awhile to places like the zoo, museums etc but our schedule was not filled by the hour. (dragging infant twins along with my 3 year old just wasn't something I was willing to do on a daily basis) I preferred the downtime with my kids to let them learn to play both alone and together and discover what was right there around them.
My oldest (pg) never sat in circle time ( he probably still wouldn't in 4th grade sadly ), or follow what everyone else was doing, so we avoided that type of thing. I got to listen to teachers rant about it in preschool settings and kindergarten that was more than enough. I can't imagine listening to people complain about it in a setting I chose to take him too lol.
I don't really think there is a middle ground for you unless you accept that they are going to want things X way but you can squeeze in some Y ways during your time there that they won't comment on as much.
Good luck.