Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Brick wall? Bang head here!

seriously, do we have that emoticon available here?

Overall, we are pretty happy with the new "home study" program for Butter. Or I was until today.

We had finally finished our testing/assessment and the principal said he welcomed having a talk with me and the school psychologist about what we would do for Butter. That meeting was today...

Chops (that's the husband) an I decided that, based on her WIAT, we would like her moved to 4th grade (she's in 3rd). So that's what I went to ask for. SO SHUT DOWN!

The school psych was DISMISSIVE of the testing and said they wouldn't even look at it! They pulled the whole social emotional BS card. The psych did NOT like it when I pointed out that math "enrichment" is pointless for a kid not interested in math AND when I challeneged the notion that she didn't really NEED to be worried about Social Studies at this point, especially when the topic was uninteresting to her. She DID glance over the WISC and say my kid couldn't possibly have any auditory processing problem (even though she's not qualified to make THAT assessment). I was told that even if Butter finished the 3rd grade work tomorrow, she would not be given 4th grade work, but the principal will introduce me to the HIGH SCHOOL english teacher and see if we can't get some more approriate novels and literature analysis...he told me I could "enrich" her at home, but what is the POINT of THAT if shes not getting any kind of credit and will be expected to perform at a LOWER level in the classroom? Oh one more...the SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST told me, indeed, we would not likely EVER get any additional testing or assessment for ANY KIND of LD because, BY DEFINITION, a kid could NOT test that high and have LDs!!!!! OMG!!! BY WHOSE DEFINITION? THE DISTRICT IS WRONG!

To add insult to injury, THEN the principal told me that skipping is at the behest of the teacher at the END OF THE YEAR. So, we will not even be allowed to CONSIDER this until then...so...off I go to put a bug in the teacher's ear. She also teaches 4th, btw, so she woul be pretty well placed to figure out if a kid could skip 3rd or 4th...she ADMITTED that Butter seemed bored (HER WORD) at times or like she's not really paying attention, but then asked WHY I would want to skip her???????? REALLY?!?!?!?!?!

I just don't know what to think at this moment. my head hurts so bad! We have one other option, Connections, but I don't want to move her AGAIN this year, especially when she likes all the extra cirriculars

Egads. I so wish you could figure out a way to have Butter go to Mr B's school.

I will bring my oar & some life jackets to Sbux in the am.

If I had a brick I'd hold it up for you to bang your head on, but I'd be nervous you might just lob it at the psychologist. And that I might help you.

Isn't it frustrating when the level of ignorance despite the amount of degrees ends up creating a road block for you?

I was told the same thing - that high scores and good grades would end up bumping my son out of his LD special Ed classification.

You likely did better than me. When I was told this during his IEP, I asked the diagnostician, " So you're telling me that unbeknownst to me, the some fairy godmother came down and pwanged my son with her magic wand and he no longer has dysgraphia?"

I'm sorry it went so poorly.

oh great...so I just looked up her "Wordly Wise 3000" first edition to see what grade it's for...FOURTH. and the teacher already gave us book 2, which is 5th grade level.

If you see me and I have a bald spot, it's because I tore my hair out in frustration!

My son has an IEP for his hearing impairment. I think that, in some cases, if your child is at grade level for the condition that the IEP is there for, the school could possibly remove the services being given for that. My understanding is that they don't have to give an IEP so your child is above grade level.
It doesn't mean obviously that your child doesn't have a disability but it might mean that the school doesn't have to provide services anymore.

Well, a disability by itself doesn't necessarily qualify a student for IDEA. There must also be an educational need for special education services. Simultaneously proving an educational need in order for her to do grade level work, while also proving that she's ready to move beyond grade level, that's going to be a tough combination to sell.

oh, for this visit, I wasn't in there trying to get an IEP, I was just trying to get her moved to a more appropriate grade level with the right amount of challenge for her.

My comment about being gifted and having learning disablilities was more just me being pissed off because she was so wrong! Even Chops said "and this woman has a degree?"

I still just don't understand. I say "The standard is too low", They say "We have to make the standard apprpropriate for the average student". I point out how "unaverage" my child is. They say that I can "enrich" her at home, all I want. I'm still not understanding how this is actually a good idea. She already has problems doing this level of work because she already has more knowledge, deeper understanding, "gets it" faster than the average kid. We don't seem to have gotten a GT level cirrculum (which she does qualify for based on the District's own test), so I'm asking that she be moved up to the next grade.

I don't understand why it matters to anyone else what grade my kid is in. I just want her to get an actual appropriate level of work...like, they say if she finishes the 3rd grade math, they won't give me the 4th grade. I guess I could go buy my own, but why should I have to when they have it there. And why should I move her to that when they will put her in 4th next year and she would essentially have to do it over?

I am in the exact same situation as you are. A 3rd grader who should be in middle school. Our school has the exact same attitude as your school. We have had no luck even with Davidson's support! And your statement here about "what does it matter to anyone else?" is so true!!! Why the heck do they care?!

I have a meeting with DD6's school tomorrow. We had a family meeting to discuss it, and pretty much all that has changed is that DD is getting some slightly more interesting busy work after she's finished the 1st grade work that insults her intelligence. Everything that comes home is still stuff she's already done before, only now it's becoming more sloppy and inaccurate, because she clearly doesn't care anymore. She's also pretty sick and tired of immature classmates that can't behave themselves.

So, we agreed that she still needs a grade skip. I already know what the school's answer is going to be, so tomorrow I'll tilt with those windmills, and then I'll join you here to find interesting things to do with bricks.

hugs all around and passing a cup of cammomile tea and valium to calm your nerves...
I'm so frustrated on your behalf and dreading when/if it will be my turn next year...ugh.

Magic insight dust being dispatched in your school district's general direction.

What a ludicrous thing for the psych to say...ugh

ok...I do have to admit that talking to the HIGH SCHOOL English teacher about how we could keep her language arts/reading levels high. SHE didn't think that was strange to ask what I should be doing...an she was very helpful.

I have decided that I'm going to do what I want and they can't really stop me. At worst, she will get to the point where she can graduate HS in 2 years or I will let her GED out, if I have to and she can move on to college...I've decided we WILL go as fast as we please and if we finish everything, we WILL get some additional 4th grade cirriculum from other homeschooling friends and I will either turn in no work or turn in the 4th grade work. Maybe that would also help the teacher see that she should have a skip...

I'm catching up on my thread reading, and hoping that things have improved for your little one this past month.

May I suggest a route we took? I went to the superintendent and when that didn't get us anywhere, I filed a formal complaint with the state TAG coordinator. I realize this is somewhat drastic but we were at our wits end. And it did have a benefit for all gifted kids in our district.

It's not all roses but things have improved - slightly. And we did get accommodations and a grade skip for ds (had already sent dd to private).

Sometimes you just have to give them a kick in the rear.

I'm sorry your dealing with this, and the ignorant psych...( there are TONS of them out there...I often wonder if the person they label the school counselor here even WENT to school )

I've heard it all about DS8 too, and finally after beating my head for the last several years after leaving a fabulous school ( no choice - military ) we are leaving the B&M schools for virtual school, and I think once we get our feet wet in that after a year will probably go to completely homeschooling without aid, or the private option in the virtual world. My son helped us decide that he would suffer through the rest of this year (4th gr) to make it easier for planning and then close that chapter of B&M schooling where they refuse to make accomodations just because hes " sort of smart " as they put it. Its not optimal to deal with for a few more months but it lets us start in the fall with a clean slate after a few months of freedom in the summer. Then he will be able to learn at any pace he wants without them stepping on him every step of the way to do it " their way or no way ".

Deep breaths. Fighting for what your DD deserves isn't easy but its the right thing to do. I too will never understand why they are so threatened by grade skips, possible social issues etc...what does it matter to them if the parents and child are ready to deal with it...Seems more like a control issue to me!

You need the book From Emotions To Advocacy.

Do you have the Iowa Acceleration Scale? It seems like that would be a place to start too.

well, like I said...I'm going to do what I want...if that leaves us with no work to turn in for June and maybe even May, too bad for the school. Maybe it will force their hand.

I'm so busy with the day to day of life that I haven't even gotten to the place where I can find out who to talk to next, at the District level. Our cuts are so bad that you can't even get someone from the GT program to call or email you back

Also, the school keeps saying "You can enrich her at home" like that is helpful, because it's totally NOT. I don't see the point of going "deeper" in math when you are at the basic additon/multiplication stage, how does one even enrich that? That might work in areas she enjoys, like reading, but she isn't much of a "mathy" kid so far...

She enjoys the school and doesn't seem bothered right now...and we're finally in to Developmental Behavior with our personal insurance, so we might get somewhere with that...and multiple instruments (violin and guitar) as well as multimedia and 3 hours of art on Friday keep her occupied...but really, by my calculations, she is spending about 1/3, maybe even only 1/4 of the time an "average" kid in traditional school spends on classwork...WHAT am I supposed to do with that? lol!

At this point, I don't think Iowa would help us at the school level. I don't think this particular school "gets it" as far as acceleration goes. I just want access to that next up cirriculum that MY tax dollars paid for! ugh!

2giftgirls: I just started a similar thread. There has to be a quantifiable way to show that my ds is past their precious benchmarks. His academic testing shows he is at college level at most subjects, so why do they think he can't do high school level english and social studies? Makes me crazy.

Any who: We had the same problem with a gifted blocker teacher. As you said, there is no "deeper" at that mathematical level. She just needs to progress. I'm not sure if you mentioned this or maybe I missed it, do you have insurance that will pay for academic testing? Also, perhaps there is a website that has placement tests to show her true level?

I don't know if this dd is your first or second, but we learned the hard way through our first. Teachers will lie to your face because they don't believe you know what's best for your child. We've encountered teachers who believe that advanced math is harmful to children.

I wish you luck and patience and success for your little sweeties.

rrrgh!!!! I totally made a post and it got eaten
Butter is #1 and we did have her privately tested. We are also beginning our journey with Developmental Behavior (which is covered by insurance) to rule out (or dx) any other issues like ADHD or whatever.
The worst part is that the current school psychologist wouldn't even LOOK at the testing and basically doesn't seem to understand why I am so concerned, since Butter is meeting the standards. If you look back, you will also see where she said that a child CANNOT be both gifted and LD. I almost stabbed my own eyes out with a pencil! ARGH!!!! lol!

I remember that post! Makes you wonder how these people get hired. I'm still boggling at that comment. Is this psychologist an older person or younger? I can see a 30 year veteran of the school district saying this. Maybe they really don't know better. Appalling but possible.

It pains me so find so many educators, well, uneducated.
The standard is all most schools care about. As long as they "meet" the basics, the rest of the child's development is ignored.

Like I said, get the book. Pete Wright is brilliant (also 2e for whatever it is worth).

I second this so hard I am in danger of breaking my keyboard...

I'm looking at the reviews on amazon...is this just a book about getting an IEP? THey don't do gifted IEPs in our district and we don't know if Butter has any disability yet. ADHD alone isn't enough to get an IEP in our district and OT isn't a stand alone service...is there more to this book than the reviews say?

The principles that this book teaches about how to approach meetings with school officials and teachers, documentation, communication, and advocacy can be applied to any situation where you need to deal with schools to get what you need for your child. There may be a lot of specific examples in the text that don't apply directly to your situation, but learning the underlying approach and techniques is likely to be incredibly helpful.

Get the book. Dang what is wrong with me--can't make the right smilie work...
edited to add: oops, meant to post more--aculady summed it up well up above. It would be useful for your situation. You are creating a paper trail that makes it likely that if you end up before a judge one day she will see what a reasonable parent you are who is merely looking for an appropriate education for your child. And in the process of creating a paper trail it becomes clear to the school what you are doing, and hopefully they will have the sense to realize it is better to work with you now than to be forced to later.

omg...justshootmenow...

Butter just told me that, on the computer program they use on the classroom day, she is actually on the fourth grade math...we also have a perfect score on last year's state testing in Language Arts. What the HECK else do these people WANT?!?!?

I don't think we would ever be before a judge. I would just continue to homeschool her until she could get to college, lol!

My dear I so wish there was a way dear Butter could join us at Mr B's little school. The first thing they did was start giving him end of year standard tests. He's tested out of LA in 3, 4 & 5. He's doing LA with the 6 & 9 graders. Seminar level work. I am so sorry that they are not allowing a skip on paper but are doing it in practice. Have I mentioned that I LOVE his school?