Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Behavior issues, any suggestions?

Ok, I�ve been a lurker for quite a while here and am so incredibly thankful for everyone sharing their stories/struggles and opinions. So here�s my turn.

DS6 is in a HG program (supposedly have to be 99.5 IQ and achievement to qualify) with our school district, yet even in this group he is an outlier. We had him tested at 4 by a local psychologist because of my concerns for Aspergers (spaciness, social immaturity, incredible focus on certain things but oblivious to others, getting very upset and difficult to calm in certain circumstances, large motor issues, sensory processing issues etc). At that time the psychologist did an eval and gave a dx of Anxiety NOS. The psychologist did an IQ test at that time which put him in the gifted range (high 130�s to low 140�s)

So fast forward to now. 1st grade in a HG program which is an �enrichment type program�. He�s reading at 6-7th grade level, Math at about 4th (had to strongly encourage the school to test him for placement in the 3rd grade math class). The majority of his �HG� 1st grade classmates are working on about 2nd to 3rd grade reading, 1st grade math (single digit addition/subtraction), simple spelling (of, that, send, etc.) (he adds his own words for spelling practice � last week these were Athena, citizen, earthquake, nemesis, cider)

So here�s the problem. He was so excited about going to 1st grade, but now not so much. He has been having a meltdown at least weekly, he is disrespectful to school authorities during these meltdowns, but the rest of the time is very respectful, wants to be a good kid, is what I would describe as a gentle creative, quiet boy. The meltdowns seem to be triggered by relatively minor things that he thinks are unfair, but he is very difficult to calm down and as I said above he becomes very verbally disrespectful to everyone around him. He�s still very spacy during class � playing with his hands � pretending they�re spaceships, staring through the blue color of his clipboard when he�s supposed to be listening to the teacher, fidgeting with and dropping his pencil/ his paper , but has no problems keeping up with the schoolwork.

So meltdowns, spaciness, social immaturity; Is this twice exceptional behavior? Aspergers? ADHD � inattentive type? Bored gifted? Asynchronous development? Dombroski�s overexcitabilites? �..All of the above? His IQ scores put him at the same level as the other kids in his class, so why is he so different?

Just venting and sharing....what would you do? The school officials seem to be at a loss of how to deal with his meltdowns. They want their school psychologist to do an behavioral eval � she�s sweet, but just graduated from college with no special training in gifted behaviors. Part of me wonders if a lack of challenge is part of the problem behind his behaviors, but I don�t think a grade skip or two is good because of his immaturity, and his handwriting (which is about typical 1st grade). Any suggestions to help stop meltdowns or provide more engagement in the classroom so he�s not so spacy?

Thanks for letting me share.

Sounds a lot like my son (ADHD). I think it just exacerbates all the underlying things that go along with being gifted. His sense of fairness is amplified by like a thousand and he'll freak out and have a fit. His perfectionism has gotten so bad he was literally crying last week at school because they were going to have a math test later that morning and he was afraid he was going to FAIL it. This, from a kid that gets 100's on nearly everything.

We've started him on concerta and it's really helped him. He still has his meltdowns (like the math test one) but overall his issues have gone from being multiple times a day to maybe 2 times a week. (We are doing counseling as well.)

If your son does have ADHD, I'd recommend talking to psychiatrist about meds. Some kids have some success with just therapy, but if he has a real problem with executive function, nothing's really going to help him as much as meds will.

Do you have any testing from more recently? It's possible that the testing he did a 4yrs old doesn't accurately reflect his abilities.

Second, it's possible that your DS is just trying to entertain himself. It's hard for anyone, much less a 6yo boy, to sit 6 hours a day five days a week listening to information that you already know.

ADD-inattentive could also be an issue, but I'm not sure if you can get an accurate read on that until you see him in an appropriate learning environment.

How is his behavior at home?

If your library has this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Misdiagnosis-..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321918049&sr=8-1

I would check it out. I was starting to get the "ADHD" comments about my oldest daughter and even though we home school, I knew I would have gotten them if she were in school. She would be the "bored gifted" you mentioned in your post. But I figured I should prepare for an "ADHD talk" so checked into it and now have great information for discussion as to why she is NOT ADHD.

He does have inattention at home - he will be so focussed at whatever he is doing or looking at he doesn't notice when someone calls his name, he gets distracted in doing a task and has to be reminded (like "hey, remember to put the other sock on and button your pants"). But he can concentrate on something that he's interested in for hours. Literally. He is a master of delayed gratification (saves money, reward tokens and then allows himself to use some of it when he has reached a goal (like he'll decide to spend 10 of his tokens on an hour of movie time once he's gotten to 200 tokens or only eat 2 pieces of his smarties so he has some for after dinner). I thought kids with ADHD had real difficulty with delayed gratification.

I do plan on having him re-evaluated with someone with experience with gifted kids/2e kids, but we have to fly out of state to do that so it won't happen for about 5 months.

I'm not opposed to meds, just want to make sure that that's the right direction and all other possibilities have been ruled out.

I think I've read every book out there I can find. Misdiagnosis and duel diagnosis is excellent.

Delayed gratifications is typically a difficult concept for ADHD kids, but being gifted allows them to compensate in certain areas. He may not have ADHD at all. Have you looked at the Vanderbilt scale? http://www.myadhd.com/vanderbiltparent6175.html.

While gifted kids exhibit some ADHD symptoms, there are some differences. I see the lack of impulse control as a red flag, personally. "Meltdowns" or tantrums in front of peers with any sort of regularity is a pretty big problem. Does he have these meltdowns in other frustrating situations?

True for comprehension or just decoding? Does he grasp fiction at the same level as nonfiction?


Could well be Asperger's. The irrational meltdowns (intense for no good reason) have been a key problem for my DS9 (AS).

I'd take him to a neuropsych, with a diary of events and a list of the issues you're seeing in hand, and ask them to do a full eval. It is very important to get an outside opinion; a school psych is not qualified to make medical diagnoses.

At the same time, give the list of issues to the school (in writing) and ask them for a full educational evaluation. They'll look at slightly different things than the outside eval will, and you'll put it all together and come up with a plan for school.

If they find nothing but bored gifted, then you haven't lost much.

If he has AS, the fastest way to stop the meltdowns is probably going to be to medicate for the anxiety. We did this in first and immediately got significant gains. We have also used ABA (behavior therapy) to work on coping, and it's been very useful to DS.

We eventually medicated for attention too, but the anxiety was the main driver of the meltdown behavior. AS can cause serious attention problems as well as anxiety issues (some professionals diagnose ADHD on top of AS, some don't).

HTH,
DeeDee

I did the Vanderbilt assessment and he scores high in the screening for ADHD inattentive and Anxiety. It's a nice little screening tool!

Regarding decoding or comprehension, I think it's comprehension. I do get a little confused on what it means that kids with aspergers have great reading skills but little comprehension. DS loves fiction, not long ago read the percy jackson series and made up his own fantasy where he was the 13th greek god (not just a demigod as he would tell me) of immortality who would confer immortality to all around him. He also seems to get abstract thinking fairly well. ...at least I think he gets it. But he definitely has some aspergers traits.

MamaJA, are you living my life? lol!

Same things here...I have my final talk with the evaluator tomorrow, but so far, it would seem more NOT ADHD or other 2e type thing. We are homeschooling now and I'm trying not to kick myself and remind myself that my kids are more resiliant than they often seem...

Also, my DD8 didn't have meltdowns per se, more withdrawl and reading books under her desk. This year she HAD finally started, I guess, to backtalk the teacher, but I'm still not exactly sure how that goes, it was more like openly refusing to do work, just letting it sit there or ignoring the teacher. She generally did not disturb the other students. We got many "possible Asperger's" comments but mostly just based on her desire for well defined personal space and lack of eye contact.

Honestly, I would sit down for a chat with the school and bring those test scores, possibly info from Misdx, if you have it, as to why it's NOT that he is a BEHAVIOR PROBLEM, but likely bored in class. You will probably get pushback about how he is already in the gifted program, blah blah...

Having a child who was labeled a BEHAVIOR PROBLEM myself, these are some of the things I wish we could have tried before I got so mad-changing classrooms, more challenging work, tryout in a higher grade. But our school was having NONE OF IT for a kid they had already made up their minds about

Mine comprehends well, actually, but his fiction comprehension level is more at age level, whereas his nonfiction level is somewhere sky-high, and he sometimes misses social nuances or characters' inner motivations in the stories.

With a gifted AS child, you have to throw out a certain number of the "can'ts" that are often expressed about AS kids. The core problems that affect my DS from his AS are social skills, self-control especially around strong interests, and executive function issues.


Mine has always been highly abstract. More particle physics than Newton.

How are your DS's relationships with peers?

DeeDee