Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Do these people even know what they're doing?

DD6 is in first grade and the gifted program. The gifted program involves being pulled out for a couple of hours for Language Arts and Math. For the rest of the day she's in a regular first grade class, where she has been gradually expressing her boredom and frustration with not learning anything. So, at her behest, we had a meeting to review her IEP last week, with the goal of getting her promoted to 2nd grade.

Here are some things we learned:

- The gifted class is made up of 1st-3rd graders, and the gifted teacher says each kid does work one grade level up, differentiated for each individual. Work almost never comes home from this class, so we have little information to support that except what DD shares, though she has indicated that they're doing multiplication and division, which is 3rd grade work. She also indicates they're all doing the same thing. This is interesting, because DD is the only 1st grader in the class, there's one other 2nd grader, and the rest are 3rd graders. This means my daughter is working 2 grades above level in math, one other child is working one level above, and the rest are doing grade-level work.

- DD was tested for suitability for 2nd grade, and with more than half the school year remaining, she scored a 58% on a math test for what she's supposed to know at the end of 2nd grade. Reading skills were off the chart, though comprehension was near the 2nd-grade baseline (I never did well at this at the elementary level, either, because who cares what color the dog was?). I don't know what these results told the people in that room, but they told me that 2nd grade was the right challenge level.

- G/T teacher indicated that DD still wanted the teacher to stand by her a lot and help her through the math, an indication of a lack of maturity to work independently... to which DW said, "Of course she needs more help, you're doing multiplication, she's never seen this before, she's your only first grader!" 1st grade teacher indicated DD works independently with no problems.

- Principal stated unequivocally that a grade skip was not an option, that the district doesn't even do it. We reached out to the district to verify, because they have a process for it outlined in their documentation. Yes, they do have a process, but the district person who would have final say, when questioned, indicated that she would ignore the parents and trust the "experts" around the room, because they know how children develop. Said experts recited a slew of misconceptions about gifted children during that meeting. The principal even tried to pretend they have a number of children like DD in each classroom, at which point I was forced to point out she's the only one in her entire grade level receiving gifted services.

We agreed to allow the first grade teacher to work with the gifted teacher to come to some accommodations for DD in the 1st grade class, and meet in six weeks to discuss the outcome. But I pressed them to commit to a six-week trial in 2nd grade if the results are unsatisfactory, and again, the principal dismissed that option out of hand.

So... given the information we've received, my confidence that they even know anything about gifted children at all is at a new low. And if this doesn't work, given the institutional hostility towards the concept of grade-skipping, I feel our only alternative will be to go back to homeschooling. It's this "enrichment" or nothing. The sad thing is, DD really likes the gifted program.

Am I just being overly pessimistic here? Your thoughts, please.

As a footnote, when DD got home from school that day, she plopped herself in DW's lap and eagerly inquired, "Am I going to second grade now?" When she got her answer, she quietly cried.

I'm so sorry about the school's attitude!

Personally, if I was financially able, I would homeschool my children in a hot minute. There are SO many homeschool programs, communities and resources available these days. As it is, I am the breadwinner in the family, so it's not a option for me.

When I told Butter that she would continue to miss out on "art projects" (quotations to indicate that DD didn't even REALIZE she was missing, her expectations of "art" are much higher) if she didn't do the assigned classwork in the appropriate amount of time, she wept bitterly. I would describe her as stoic, so that was my indicator...I promised I would never make her go back in that classroom...and that was AFTER an SST in which they urged me to get herr to open up emotionally. Yes, my art loving child that you want to open up to you...you're going to deny her art?!?!

So, I DON'T think they know what they are doing. I TOTALLY understand your frustration. Sometimes, administrator's hands are tied, and I get that too, but I also believe there are ALWAYS work arounds. My concern is that the person who ou are supposed to take this to doesn't even want to consider YOUR opinion, as the parent? How are we supposed to be a team, invested in your child's future, if half the team won't play ball? I wonder if any outside expert opinion would work? What if YOU gather a ton of research, etc...Do you have an independent doctor's evaluation, will they even consider that?

In our case, I think you saw, we are actually doing "independent study". We have a "school" with a physical campus. Butter can go to class with other 3rd graders 1x per week for 3 hours, plus lunch. They also have a peer tutoring lab (school goes up to 12th, so plenty of help) and lots of other optional classes like art, blues guitar and multimedia. We get all the books checked out to us and only have to produce minimal examples for the teacher to back up the grades she gives. I DO think we will still have a problem when we finish her evaluation next week, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. This school does seem alot more flexible, though I have not talked to a SINGLE PERSON other than our evaluator and one other parent of gifted that thinks acceleration is acceptable. I think, looking at our school district, I can probably give my child alot more of what she needs at this point...maybe you should look at it more that way too?

I would get the Iowa Acceleration Manual and From Emotions to Advocacy.

To answer your question, probably not.

Sorry.

Depending on your state, there may be state policies requiring individual districts to maintain full grade and subject acc policies. Now - that a district chooses to do nothing with them is a different battle. But I am first curious whether - your state supports your schools belief that they do not need to evaluate for full grade acc.

Now you write your district is implying who may have the final word - but on most such policies - there is a required appeal process. I'm horrid at the soft approach that builds for better long-term relationships but I just don't see this as over based purely on policy and how your district's board would like policy implemented to match.

You lost a battle - get an ice pack, a shield, and suit back up.

Today. Ice Cream. Tomorrow...

I had actually planned to ask them if they'd evaluated her using the Iowa Acceleration Manual during the meeting (knowing the answer would be "No", but planting the idea of doing so), but I was ambushed when the principal dismissed the idea of acceleration out of hand.

Meanwhile, I was sitting there listening to them filling the bingo board of misunderstandings about the nature of gifted kids:

- "We have kids like her in every classroom."
- "We can meet every child's individual needs through differentiation."
- "It's important for her socially to stay with kids her own age."
- "We know how children develop normally." (Guess what... she's not normal)

I passed on the executive summary of "A Nation Deceived," and the principal looked at it like I'd just handed her a used tissue.

I'll have to look at From Emotions to Advocacy, because what I'm doing right now is just the opposite. I kept my cool in the meeting, but the more I think about the result, the more angry I become.

If homeschooling, as someone else mentioned, isn't something that works for your family, would another school within the district be more accommodating? I never intended to have my kids move around as much as they have, but we've been in two districts, homeschooled, and tried a charter school in order to get dd13's needs closer to met.

The year that dd skipped, 5th, wasn't one I even had to advocate for. I called around to potential middle schools (6th-8th) when she was in 4th to say, 'here's what I've got, what will you be able to do for this kid when she gets to middle school?' The GT coordinator at the middle school she wound up attending listened to the test scores we had (IQ & achievement) and what else I had to say about dd and suggested as her first thing that we send her right away, skipping 5th. We went through the IAS with her current school at the time and the middle school and, while the current elementary hadn't been the ones suggesting the skip, they had to admit on the IAS that she more than met the requirements.

The thing with the IAS that I've found to be a bummer is that it is pretty subjective. If the school is strongly opposed, they can fill out all kinds of things like work habits, social skills, etc. to put the kid in a poor light.

How many National Merit scholars does the downstream high school have every year and how many Intel Science winners or finalists does it have? State debate champions? Spelling bee champions?

I'd keep pounding on the principal and their boss with news stories and stuff.

Here is one. A 15 year old senior goes to MIT.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/commun...t-15-already-heading-to-mit-1406226.html

Homeschooling is definitely an option, which we exercised last year. Louisiana's standards for admission to the G/T program are extraordinarily high for 5yos, in order to weed out the otherwise normal kids with pushy parents, and with no real services for her and deteriorating emotional state, we homeschooled her. She LOVED it, and it was great for her, too. It really restored and improved upon her love for learning, and it even brought her and her mom closer together.

The one downside to homeschooling is she's an extrovert, and she wants to be around lots of kids. There's an element of loneliness to homeschooling (she's an only child). She has some friends in the neighborhood, and she has all sorts of athletic activities after school, so we're meeting those needs as best we can outside the school environment already. While homeschooling, she was also involved in some local homeschool classes, but she was the youngest kid in the classes by far, and there really weren't social opportunities that went with them.

There's also a local charter school which might fit, though affordability is a BIG issue. They say they offer children work one level above grade level as a matter of course.

One interesting thing about the state of LA is they promise a right to a free, appropriate public education to gifted children, which goes beyond the requirements of IDEA and similar federal legislation. In concept, it's quite laudable. So now we're trying to leverage that right into what's truly appropriate for her. If it works out, that's the best possible scenario... she's around lots of kids, we can afford it, and she gets the appropriate education. Otherwise, the best we can do is two out of three, and we have to figure out which one to give up... and giving up the appropriate education is not an option.

Changing to another school within the district does not appear to be an option. They appear to be fairly strict about attending the school whose attendance boundaries include your home.


Yeah, I have that same concern, especially when they're already finding little ways to criticize her maturity. As I mentioned before, they criticized her for needing help on work that's brand new to her and two grade levels above her. They also said she should be taking the lead on group activities in first grade, to which I responded that it's not an appropriate expectation... sure, maybe she feels motivated to lead, but maybe also she feels motivated to shut down and tune out, because the work is so beneath her, and this is a personality response which has nothing to do with whether she's ready for a more challenging environment or not.

It doesn't help that the more frustrated she becomes in school, the more she shuts down. We saw this in K, when it got so bad she told us she'd forgotten how to write T's (this from a kid with beautiful penmanship who was already writing full sentences for a full year by that time, and whose first name includes the letter). We're seeing this again, where selected papers are coming home extremely sloppy, which shows us she rushed through it to get it over with, because she hated doing the assignment. And last night she brought home a paper from her first grade class where she'd gotten a lot of it wrong, it was basic grammar stuff she had mastered last year during homeschooling, and it was obvious she'd just rushed through it without thinking much about it. Then she beat herself up for not getting 100% on it, which she had convinced herself she should always do, as the only gifted kid in her class. Not fun.

So, to sum up, the longer the school fails to meet her needs, the more she's going to show them behaviors that indicate she's not ready for more, which enables them to continue to fail her, and ignore us. ARRRRGGGHHH!!

Austin, thanks for the newspaper article. We worry so much about accelerating, it's nice to see a success story!