Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Why Science Majors Change Their Mind (too hard)

I went to a school with a very large pre-med program/engineering department. Just from freshman biology and chemistry, the pre-med population decreased to about a third of its original size. Many people didn't want to put in the effort to succeed, were distracted by other aspects of college, or didn't go in to office hours when they struggled. One girl who made it through those classes and became my lab partner for biochemistry lab actually complained to our professor that she was smart, and, therefore, shouldn't have to work hard in his class. That was the prevailing attitude of a lot of the freshman/sophomore pre-meds.

In our engineering school, most of the attrition stemmed from the difficulty and work load of the programs offered. Unless you studied at least 2 hours a night or already knew some of the material, you wouldn't do well enough to pass all of your classes. One chemistry/chemical engineering class, we had a mean exam score of 30. Even after the curve, a fourth of our class was still below passing. Most students in our program had received mostly A's in high school and had taken the hardest math and school programs. Getting a 20 on their first engineering exam was a reality check that scared away some students.

Over the past few years teaching applied mathematics, I've noticed that a lot of students tend to shy away from challenges, rather than face them and push through them. Many students have come in for help without attempting the problems on their own first, and some who are failing never show up at all. It's as if they have been conditioned not to exert effort at all--whatever ability they have will carry them through or else they will find something that they can coast through. Students I see again in other courses or around the department are ones who made it through the first year or two of transition to a higher level of work.

I read this wonderful book by Sheila Tobias,
"They're Not Dumb, They're Different:Stalking the Second Tier".

The book, written in 1990, discusses why qualified students do not pursue science degrees. I read it years ago, but one of the main points discussed was that qualified students (second tier does NOT mean less academically able in the book) chose not to major in science simply because there is very little opportunity for scientific research once they graduate. It is quoted somewhere in the book (paraphrased here) that this country has never had a shortage of qualified PhD s, but there is a shortage of open PhD level potions.

I could not find an amazon link(still available for purchase on amazon) with excerpts to read, but the following is a link of a review. Which also discusses the university culture of professors, and lack of community which results in pushing many qualified students away.. very interesting.

http://trc.virginia.edu/Publications/Teaching_Concerns/Spring_1992/TC_Spring_1992_Deen.htm

I meant to state that the book is still available for purchase on amazon, but that there are no pages available for viewing

There's a big difference between wealth-seeking pre-med majors who crumble at the first adversity and disillusioned potential science Ph.D.'s.

If they want wealth, they might try pre-dent instead of pre-med.

My dad is an engineer and did very well financially.

I think Engineers usually peak out at $120K or so if you are on the tech side your entire career. It's tough to get above that without going into management.

You're right about dentistry. With med school, you can still end up losing the $$$ lottery and end up as a GP saddled with $250,000 in debt (or whatever it is these days). Dentists run a much better guild than MD's/DO's.

For me, the first year of university was a culture shock. I slid through high school with ease and just expected that university would be similar. My first degree was a double major in biology and physics. After my first mid-terms (two of which I barely passed), I knew that it I had to learn how to study... fast. I can attest to the significant drop out rate. I started my degree with 15 people from my graduating class and only three of us finished. It is incredibly humbling to go from the top of the class to the middle or bottom of the barrel.

I had a number of labs and project courses in chemical engineering at Penn State. There seemed to be plenty of "hands-on" activities that you could do if that was your desire.

Although I was in the Honors Program, so I think I automatically got more choices with respect to self-selected lab work and courses.

I kind of had the opposite experience, initially. I found that my first college classes were essentially repeats of my high school classes, therefore no effort required. Granted, I got a 3.75 my first semester, rather than a 4.0.

I didn't start collecting my 1.75's and assorted C's, D's., and F's until junior/senior/super senior year.

Note: I was forced for political reasons to attend a rural cow-ville school with a graduating class of 120.

No or few labs is the new normal. Labs are expensive, and there's a trend among colleges and universities to cut them or not require them. It's depressing.


I think this problem is due as much to the way that physics is taught than an inherent super-high level of difficulty. I struggled through first-year physics and really understood very little of it, in spite of doing okay-ish on exams. I've recently been self-teaching, and am amazed that I ever had trouble with this stuff. I'm using University Physics (plus a few other books and the web), so I'm not teaching myself physics for poets. It's the real thing, calculus and all. And seriously, it really isn't all that hard. But the way I've seen it explained...leaves a lot to be desired.

[quote=Bostonian]

“We’re losing an alarming proportion of our nation’s science talent once the students get to college,” says Mitchell J. Chang, an education professor at U.C.L.A. who has studied the matter.

[quote=lilswee]At Freshman Engineering Orientation, we were told "look to your right look to your left, only one of you will graduate from the college of engineering". Nice. I am incredibly stubborn.

Seems like a classic case of self fulfilling prophecy to me. If they tell them on the way in that they aren't going to make it, why are they be surprised when so many of them don't?

I would also suggest that at least some may be leaving not because it is "too hard" but perhaps because the environment is unpleasant due to pointless and excessive competition among students and very disinterested faculty. At a certain point perhaps the payoff may no longer seem worth the social and emotional costs.