Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Opinions/experience with magnet program & MG kid?

My DD7 participates in a pull-out enrichment program at our school district for 2nd grade. Next year, she will be eligible to either continue in the pull-out (one day/week) or attend a full-time accelerated magnet program for the rest of elementary.

She is moderately gifted. She hasn't had an IQ test, but her CogAT scores, etc., indicate she is probably right around 130.

This means that she may be at the lower end of ability in the full-time accelerated program. I have also heard anecdotes that the program involves significant homework (like 2 hours+ per night), although the district paperwork describes a homework expectation of only 30 minutes to 1 hour a night.

My DD is involved in several extracurricular activities and we don't want to stress her out with too much homework. We also have some concerns about her self-esteem and don't want her to be frustrated and feel like the LEAST capable person in an accelerated class. She does well in her regular classroom and would be reluctant to switch and leave her friends (but I do think she "dumbs" herself down to fit in, to some extent).

That said, all the research I have read and my own instincts lead me to believe that she would benefit from being more challenged academically and being around other kids of similar mindsets toward learning. So I am leaning toward enrolling her in the accelerated magnet program, despite some misgivings.

Anyone have experience/thoughts/other considerations to share about a kid who falls in this range of giftedness? Thanks!

There are the questions I have. First, would you consider or could you make the investment in outside testing prior to making your decision? I think that would give you a much more accurate assessment of the level you are dealing with. If you have read at all on this board, you probably already know that some people don�t think too highly of group tests for identifying gifted kids. Alternatively, if you are concerned with her being on the lower end of ability; have you inquired regarding the different levels in the program and even within the program if they level kids?

Second, the homework thing would worry me. Some gifted programs think more is better and I wonder if the program has a reputation as having a lot of homework if it isn�t just more of the same and maybe not a good fit for your DD. That would be a big deal for me to because my DS also has sports, musical theater, and playing after school. If it did turn out to be 2 hours a night, would you and your DD be ok with that?

Finally, you say that your DS seems to be thriving in school now and that she enjoys her pull out program. Could you think of other ways to challenge and/or encourage her academically without the full time program? Your instincts are very powerful things when it comes to your child but these are some of the questions, I would ask in trying to decide whether to go with the full time program.

Good luck.

If she is elibible for the 'full time' gifted program, then what does your school base this eligibility on. Sit down with the Gifted Coordinator and share your concerns about her being the slowest kid in the full time program. See if the GC can show you test scores or grades or anything to assure you that your dd won't be that kid.

It's a bit of a philosophical debate about what to do if you child is 'that kid.' I think she would still be better off - especially if she is 'dumbing down' for her current friends. Someday, she will be around kids who are 'much much' more gifted than she is. Isn't it better for that day to be while she is in your home to get your support than if she has crused through and is away at college? Sylvia Rim writes a lot about kids who are 'straight A underachievers' and how they fall apart when they finally meet challenge. I'd take that slot as the slowest gifted kid and keep harping on that it's character and hard work that help one succeded at life.

As for the other parents who are telling you homework scare stories - it's certianly possible that this school is all about hours of grind, but it's also possible that those kids are wasting 75% of their study time txting at the same time, or that those are the kids who are actually much less gifted than your DD, or they have undiagnosed (or diagnosed) 2E issues, such as ADHD. Or that the parent is bragging in a weird way. Only way to tell is to try. If possible, then visit the classrooms and see what's going on in there.

Best Wishes,
It's always hard to make a change,
Grinity

Thanks for the thoughts. More to mull over...

In response to your questions, the district uses a combination of the Iowa Basic Skills Test and CogAT tests to determine eligibility.

Roughly, the top 2.8% of the testers qualify for participation in the gifted program. Of that 2.8%, only the top half (approximately) can participate in the full-time program.

In theory, the families are supposed to be able to choose whether to go full-time or stay in pull-out. But there are more families who want to do full-time than there is space, so they let kids in according to test scores (top scorers get in first).

The coordinator told me that DD's scores make her look like a good candidate for the full-time program, but she was not 99th percentile in everything. I am guessing she is at the lower end of the top 1.4%, considering how she compares to the national numbers on the test results.

I do not know if I want to seek out additional testing to establish just how gifted she is. Both of her parents were identified as gifted and I don't think she was mis-identified. I suppose I could be underestimating her ability, but her group test scores were not way off the mark of what I would have predicted for her. I dunno.

The one thing about the homework thing- the having to do it perfectly can often turn a light homework assignment into a long ordeal. Hopefully any program that is working with gifties addresses this issue and works closely with the parents to monitor this. I think the extra curricular activities can help to moderator this tendency. I would want to know what she was not in 99% to help understand where she stands. Can you spend some time in the classroom of the magnet program. Can your daughter visit? Sometimes teachers are more important than programs. What school does the magnet feed into for middle school? Some thoughts.. good luck.

I did not mean to imply that she was mis identified. You seem to be concerned that she dumbs herself down (reason to be in full time program) but also concerned that she might not be able to keep up or worrying that she might feel like she is the least capable (reason not to be in full time program). I only thought individual testing as opposed to group testing might give more infomration in sorting out those two. It could very well be that a WISC would come back with something higher than what you think her LOG is and you would think - this is a no brainer she is definitely dumbing herself down more than I thought and I better get her in a more intellectually competitive environment or she is going to learn that you don't even have to try to succeed and then when she does have to try it could be more difficult than when you are around. You may already be convinced of that without the individual testing, but it was just a thought.

Good luck.

You seem to be thinking about the right things. My DD is all about her friends but sometimes as parents we have to look at the big picture and you seem to be doing that. I just wanted to add that statistically speaking, most of the kids are closer to the bottom of the cutoff than the very top.....

Also, wrt homework. I agree with the poster above about perfectionism, bad planning or whatever. One person's 15 minutes can take another 2 hours for who knows what reasons. We have run into that comparison. I know that the Middle School kids in our area have a homework learning curve just due to the fact that many elementary teachers in our area don't prepare them by giving homework....But they will learn to be more efficient.

Excellent point lilswee! I checked my Math with Dottie, and she agreed that wherever on draws a gifted cut-off line, then 2/3rd of the kids who test in to the program will be very very close to that cut off line. Think about the shape of a tail of the bell curve.

Smiles,
Grinity

It is clear that your daughter is gifted. From the availible information, it's impossible to know if you daugher is a line-hugger, or a 'way-out-there-er' with extra-good hiding skills. Many daughers and a few sons are quite good at hiding. If she has the will to blend into her friend's expectations, then she may also have the will, and perhaps even the skills to fool you too.

If you are leaning towards just sending her and seeing how it goes, then send her. If you are leaning away, then certianly sit down with the GC and share your concerns and ask - point blank - if it looks like your DD will be the least gifted kid in the room. But remember that even if she is hugging the line, she won't be alone in that position - she's be in the majority!

Smiles,
Grinity

Thank you all for all the excellent feedback!

I hadn't really focused on the idea that there may well be a lot of line-huggers, statistically.

DD is stronger in language skills than math. She is also a strong auditory learner and struggles more with spatial relationship/visual stuff.

I think I have been operating under an assumption that there will be a strong math/engineering focus at the gifted magnet that might work to her disadvantage, but it is purely an assumption (because math/science projects seem to get the most program publicity, maybe).

As was suggested, I will see if I can talk to the coordinators to get more detailed information about the program (and DD) and see if I can observe.