Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments High school and busy work

Dd12 started her freshman year of high school last Friday. We had some trepidation about quantity of work b/c we had heard repeatedly to expect 4-5 hrs of homework/night if you are taking pre-AP classes, a # that has been repeated often over the past few days at parent orientation, freshman orientation...

So, here's the issue. Dd is not fast. She's extremely able. She scored in the mid 500s on the verbal parts of the SAT as a young 11 y/o and the upper 20s on the verbal parts of the ACT as a young 12 y/o. Her EXPLORE scores in 8th grade put her in the top 1% of the nation for 8th graders (composite) and she generally performs in the 98th-99th percentile on pretty much everything save for math which fluctuates around. Sometimes she's in the top 1/4 of the grade on a bad day, and sometimes she's in the top 5% on a good day. I can also honestly say that she is one of the best writers I've ever met in my life, a thought shared by many of her teachers in years past. She really should be in pre-AP classes level wise.

She also has to take two science classes this year if she wants to take anything but the bare minimum boring science offerings by the end of high school. Pre-AP Bio, earth systems science, and chemistry are all pre-reqs for AP Bio and pretty much everything else. She's taking pre-AP Bio & earth systems along with pre-AP English, Geometry, world history (not pre-AP), photography, PE & French 2. Classes meet sort of every other day so you don't have every class every day.

Her pre-AP bio teacher told her that they'd have 10 hrs of homework/week for that class alone. Her history teacher yesterday gave them do what amounted to major busy work IMHO. She had to hand write out the entire syllabus verbatum and bring it home for me to sign (two pages of writing). They also have a 20 question worksheet to complete that is full of questions like, "1) What is the title of the book? Publisher? List the authors of the book. How many units does the book have? Chapters?.... 5) Draw the picture from page 2-3..."

Dd takes longer than I would on this type of stuff, but I just don't see the educational purpose, honestly, and I hope that the school year isn't going to be full of her spending five hrs/night doing crud like this. Last night probably took her four to five and a half hours btwn her various classes. (I was at parent orientation for middle school, so I don't know if she took breaks.) The school seems to be counting on the kids getting more efficient to cut down the quantity, but I'm not sure.

Thoughts? I hate to go complain especially given that this is high school and she needs to be self sufficient, but she's a stressed out crying wreck already and feels like her work quality is going down hill due to her anxiety level.

Yikes. Seems to me as though there are two aspects to this:

- help your DD to have enough self-confidence to shrug off teachers apparently being idiots and pick a solution that works for her;

- analyse possible solutions in order to be able to advise and support DD.

The first is the most urgent, I'd say: can you and she brainstorm (literally - write down all ideas no matter how silly, then consider them slowly afterwards) what might have been going through the teacher's mind as she decided to set this homework? It's a good habit, I think, to bear in mind all possibilities, from "this teacher is sadistic" to "this teacher thinks that handwriting the syllabus will fix it in people's minds" to "this teacher thinks she is obliged to set n hours of homework and couldn't think of anything better this time". That might help to see the issue as a practical, rather than as an existential, problem.

As for what to do: my guess is that complaining right now may not be sensible, as this may have been an atypical week; I think I'd hold fire until I saw what the general pattern was going to be, at least. After that, if busy work continued, I'd be tempted to suggest to her that she make her own judgement of which pieces of work are worthwhile and do only those, but I know it's hard. Does the history syllabus come with learning objectives? If so, a handy sentence to write some time might be "I decided not to do this as I didn't understand how it would support me in achieving any of the learning objectives of this course."

We did a little brainstorming last night at 9 p.m. and the few options we came up with weren't acceptable to dd b/c they mostly involved dropping to lower level classes to make the work so easy that it might not take as long or dropping her photography elective for study hall. She loves photography and was really looking forward to that one (underwater photography of sirineans was her original career plan before it morphed into marine mammology.)

I did tell her that she will still get into college if she gets some Bs on her report cards, but she really wants to maintain straight As so I doubt that she'll intentionally blow off some assignments for sleep. We've had parents tell us that their kids are up until 2 a.m. doing homework at times. Given that they get up around 5:30 to get ready for school, that just isn't acceptable to me and I do want dd to have a social life and be able to participate in clubs, etc.

Thank you for the ideas, though, and we will continue to brainstorm! Part of this is that dd did have a 504 in the past and we are meeting w/ her counselor next week to discuss that and I am wondering if there are any accommodations that we can reasonably ask for that aren't "give her less work."

Of course, if she does that, the teacher may give her a poor grade, and this will at least slightly reduce her change of getting into a "good" college. How much time a teen should spend playing the college admissions game vs. actually getting an education is an interesting question.

If the mother complains to the administration, either on her own or together with other parents, about poor teaching, she may be branded as a troublemaker, and her daughter may get poor college recommendations from teachers. One needs to know the mindset of the teachers and administrators to judge the severity of this risk.

First, as a grad of a very tough HS program, I can sympathize.

Next, Hang in there!!!

Consider this quote.


Third, there are no easy problems left to solve in the world. Everything left is complex, time consuming, and requires extensive record keeping, and working with a team of people to get things done. BS and make work is a part of life. As a giftie, you will work most of your life with less capable and imaginative people and you WILL have to teach them and then motivate them to do the work. There is no way out of this!! You will get no where until you accept this fact. Period.

In this regard, the AP program at the school is well respected and has been in place for a long time. Tens of thousands od kids have been through it. The school and teachers were honest with you.

You will not make changes to it. Accept it. The hard work at the beginning is part of the "plebe" process to shock people into either getting into the groove or washing them out. There will be MUCH harder work to come. And then there will be college.

Fourth, see this as an opportunity for growth in writing skills, time management, patience, and persistence. Don't over think what you need to do and do not read too much into what you are asked to do. Just do it. Strip your schedule down to make it happen. And then come up with ways to do it faster and better. Most people are defeated in projects because they cannot work fast and accurately.

When I was in HS, I moved from an average district into the 10th grade in a very highly ranked honors AP program with a very tight knit group of very bright and competitive kids. After years of skating by and doing my own thing, I suddenly had to work hard. I was still the smartest kid in the room, but that meant nothing. Nothing. By Christmas I was fine and had developed some routines, but the first two months were painful.

So here are my thoughts.

1. Give up perfection. Some assignments cannot be perfect. Get them done and move on.
2. Schedule. Schedule. Schedule. Get a planner like Covey franklin. Take a class on how to use it. Then, keep a monthly schedule that gets updated a couple of times a week. Keep a weekly schedule that gets updated twice a day. Go over the daily schedule in the morning.
3. For each assignment - list what needs to be done, how long each part will take, what you need to do each part, then monitor your progress as you go so as not to be surprise.
4. Prioritize and stay ahead. Assign a few hours a day to study and fill those hours with work - even if it is reading ahead and doing problems for next week.
5. Use the weekend properly. Plan to study for six hours on Sunday.
6. Have a good place to study in the house with enough room for friends to come over and do a study group.
7. Form a study group that meets regularly. Suffering together will help.
8. Don't panic. Don't overreact. Take one day at a time. Wars are won by a series of small victories.

Trust me. All the other families are reacting like this. You will look back on this and laugh.

Your DD can do the work and thrive once she accepts it and focuses on what needs to be done and no longer takes counsel with her fears.


The key to not working to 2 am is to have a schedule and to fill each day with significant effort. Most of the time that I had to study past 10 pm was when I did not stick to a daily schedule or did not work on Sunday. There were some exceptions and I did pull all nighters about once a month but that was because I wanted to get 100% on something.

I forgot to add that there are ways to help - my mom and grandmother helped by typing my papers or other stuff that needed to be typed. They also proofed my stuff.

I took numerous AP courses in high school (Bio, Chem, Physics, Literacy...) and I absolutely did not have this much work in terms of sheer quantity. I do realize that was over 20 yrs ago, but still I fear that we, as a nation, are moving toward valuing high output of stuff over high level work. If we are aiming to weed out deep thinking, creative kids who can't write fast enough or draw fast enough to recreate copious amounts of work that has already been done in favor of kids who are not highly able but can work fast doing things that don't require the ability to write well, make connections, etc., I don't think that bodes well for us as a society.

In my dd's instance, the learning goes down as the quantity goes up. She has great work ethic, but slow speed. Her anxiety rises as she is pushed to barrel through things like copying textbooks such that she stops absorbing the information. Her masterpieces come not from all nighters and high pressure to produce fast, but when given space and time to allow her brain to work the way it does -- connecting things and coming to wonderfully in depth insights.

I say what I did above in regard to this comment. I think that you are right here, but I don't think that teaching teens to do massive quantities of work necessarily helps in this arena. Dd is detail oriented, she works hard, and she is good at solving complex problems. Her slower way of approaching things works well in a field where you have to be methodical and not make rash decisions. It may take her longer to get there, but when she does, she is almost always right in her analysis and sees things that others don't.

Then there's the college game.

Do you want to get a good education or do you want to get into a good Law School/Med School/Dental School, ect.

My girls have a ways to go before high school, but I agree. The sheer volume of homework one of DDs was given in first grade was enough to keep us from asking for more challenging material for her. Admittedly, I was one of those kids who works really quickly, but I barely had any homework until college. I want my kids to have time for other activities besides school and homework.

IMHO, this is crazy. My dds took numerous AP classes in HS and did very well, and they did NOT require this number of hours of busywork. I disagree that this is necessary, or good prep for life.
I certainly don't find any value in copying out the syllabus by hand, or in filling out questions about the book. That isn't treating the students respectfully, or intelligently. I'm pretty shocked that you've heard repeatedly that students need to do 4-5 hours of homework a night. My dd18 took almost all AP classes (her HS offered all except Latin) and she scored a string of 5s. She was in a competitive show choir and had a social life. She did NOT work for that many hours a night. Frankly, how could she on nights when show choir or spring musical met for 3 or 4 hours?
I do agree with all the suggestions. We were lucky that dd18 is very organized and a very fast writer - she also didn't waste time on Facebook or texting friends while she was doing homework (and she generally worked/studied alone because other kids weren't as focused).
Truly, this seems crazy. Our district has a homework policy. Are there any recommendations at all in your district? Do the counselors/principal go along with this 4-5 hour idea?
I also don't think I'd complain immediately, but I would keep it open as an option. Your dd is in high school, yes, and she's very smart, yes, but she's still a kid. There's a reason she's not considered an adult, isn't living away at college, etc.. She still needs parental support and back up!
If parents don't speak up about this craziness, it will only get worse. I am NOT anti-homework, but I'm anti-silly busywork.
Yes, your dd should have to work hard, but this is overkill. Honestly, another reason to have the parent step in is because I think the teachers are less likely to view your dd negatively if you go in as the parent and say, "she is so concerned with doing well in this class and she would stay up all night, but I am concerned."
IMHO, there is no reason to ever pull an all-nighter in HS. Many of my dds' friends did it, but I think if you're prepared and work steadily, you should never be required to stay up all night. I know it happens, but I disagree. I think it's usually due to poor planning on the part of the student, or crazy, unrealistic demands on the part of the teacher.
Theresa

Under the 504 you *can* ask for reduced quantity of work when a smaller volume of output will adequately demonstrate mastery,(i.e., 10 hardest homework problems vs. all 30) and you can ask for accommodations, such as allowing keyboarding for all written work, including note-taking, or having alternate assessment formats (for example, a quiz over the syllabus contents vs. having to do copywork), that may significantly increase speed, reduce the processing demands that interfere with creativity and thought, and lessen the fatigue component. Even things like having extended deadlines or extra time for timed or output-intensive work and assessments might be a viable option. ("Extra time" might mean she gets assignments early or is allowed to turn them in later, depending on the nature of the assignment - obviously, getting the assignment early won't help if the material needed to complete it successfully hasn't yet been taught.) Would an extended day study period (coming in early or staying late in a quiet area) be helpful?

Brainstorm other ideas with your child, with the Special Ed. coordinator, and, if available, the professional who diagnosed her disabilities, about what accommodations and modifications might help her access the curriculum without encountering undue barriers. Right now, requiring her to do this kind of educationally unnecessary high-output low-content work is presenting a significant barrier to her participation in the program.