Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Public School with IEP or Private School?

Also consider getting an audiology exam to test the hearing since the hearing screens at the pediatrician's office are often inaccurate.

Just off the phone with the principal at the local public - explained the situation and made an appointment to meet tomorrow. I think she gets it - she said herself that placing DD in the right classroom will be huge. I also mentioned a gifted friend of DD who will also be in 1st grade next year as a possible enrichment partner and she is going to look at where that girl is placed to see if it looks like a good place for DD too. All good things.

The school psych and special ed coordinator are both on vacation for the next 2 weeks so we won't have an actual IEP in hand until just before school starts. Even then it will be more general as they want the classroom teacher and resource teacher from the school to be involved in determining actual services. Yes there will be classroom accommodations for reading, writing and anxiety and 2 1/2 hours of pull out special ed each week. I am concerned because they mentioned pulling her out during "comprehension" tasks since she is ahead there anyway. I pointed out that she would still need comprehension work just not at a typical 1st grade level. And yes, they did say that she would likely be in a low level reading group which I envision causing problems.

The reading gets even more confusing because we enrolled her in fun, low pressure parent/child reading program this summer and they placed her reading at mid-first grade level. Magnet and testing both say below K level. To further complicate things my pediatrician relative said that anything below 4th grade level would be considered remedial considering her comprehension. Our pediatrician is on vacation this week but hoping someone covering will be able to get the ball rolling on some of the referrals. DD has had several hearing tests due to ear infections and ENT thinks her hearing is fine.

Master of None hits the nail on the head - she clearly felt unsafe (both emotionally and physically) at the magnet and was in an extremely punitive environment. This was precisely our thinking and thought it was all going to be resolved when we found the private with what looks like a learning environment that is perfect for her. Then came the special ed results.

Which begs the question - are these results really as bizarre as the town is saying or is it typical in a 2E situation and they just don't have the needed experience?

Very high IQ kids are relatively rare in the population. The ones with disabilities tend not to be identified as gifted. The school may have seen kids like yours before and not known what they were dealing with; or they may never have seen one.

Our gifted teacher says that in some 30+ years of teaching ours was the first IEP meeting she ever attended. To me, that says gifted kids with disabilities are vastly under-identified as gifted. They mostly struggle along. Cricket's posts here about her younger DD seem to me a characteristic 2E experience.

So: good that you're figuring out your DD. You and your professionals will teach whatever school she attends a whole bunch.

DeeDee

What a relief to hear such reasoned voices of experience. I really was starting to feel that I must be going crazy.

Had a wonderful phone call today with the director of the largest 2E program in the country. She feels that the test results are likely fairly accurate - the scatter was consistent across enough areas to be confirming each other. While the specific numbers may not be accurate the general result of the test seems to be confirming 2E.

Interesting points she made - I was concerned about the effect of DD being placed in a low reading group. She suggests asking for a dual level approach. In one reading setting she works on her problems with reading the text and in the other she works on her high level of comprehension using technology, a peer reader, book on tape, etc. Since she will be working on reading during her pull out times I can request her in class reading group be focused on her strength with accommodations. It sounds like a great plan if the school will go for it. She said that they recommend modeling the day after a gifted student's day rather than an LD student's day and said that having a committed team leader will be the biggest key.

We discussed the private school option which she felt sounded like a good plan too. The drawbacks are the lack of a special ed coordinator and whether adaptive technology will be available. I hadn't considered that cost - if we have to purchase special equipment the cost indeed goes higher and higher. We also took another look at the paperwork from the OG program. The cost I quoted was for 2 days per week. If they worked with DD the same amount of time each week that the public is talking about the cost would literally double. I just can't see how we could do it. I think we have to enroll her in the public and see if the 2x per week would even have a chance of working.

I also spoke with the OG tutor and she indicated that the public school spec ed teacher is likely just starting her OG training - it will take another 2 years for her to reach an associate level and even longer to reach a master level so it won't actually be full fledged OG by the time she is working with DD but I am still happy to hear she is going through the training.

I also made an appointment for an ophthalmological exam and contacted my insurance about setting up a neuropsych exam - will schedule it tomorrow.

So to recap today I spoke with the principal at the public and think she is onboard, spoke with one of the best authorities on 2E there is and she confirmed in general terms that DD's test is probably an accurate representation of 2E needs and my town seems to be doing the right things. Confirmed the private would be a great option but the cost will be much higher than we were thinking. Tomorrow we meet the principal and visit the public, hopefully have a chance to learn more about a good match with a teacher.

Wow� no wonder I am exhausted! Thanks everyone you have been a HUGE help.

Pemberley, congratulations on the incredible thoroughness AND speed with which you're getting it all done!

DeeDee

I am no expert and in particular I have no knowledge of the US school system, so feel free to ignore me but I would prioritize getting the class she will spend the vast majority of her time with correct over special ed services. If she's happy and supported at school and receiving individualized education in her classroom and you fill the gaps to me that is better than being a lost lamb in a big system so she can get some services.

I also think 2 lessons with an expert may be more use than 4 lessons with a beginner...

My DD has 43 IQ points / 83 percentile points between her VCI and her WMI. She has 10 point scatter between her highest and lowest subtests, up to 6 points of scatter between subtests within single indexes. Learning to read was agony for her and for us. It took years. She's just reading for pleasure now at 9.5 yrs. Getting the right school definitely made a huge difference and she does get good special Ed accommodations, but I think it was me learning to teach her that made the biggest difference.

You are your child's most important teacher, even if they are at school everyday.

When ds was first diagnosed with 2E issues, a psychologist mentioned he could possibly get social security supplemental because of his disability. I never persued it because I thought we made too much money. I recently went to a meeting about another aspect of children with disablities. In passing, someone mentioned that a lot of people can't received social security supplemental for their kids because of their income, but that those people could have their kids' therapies paid for. I don't know all the details because ds's therapy is minimal at this point, but it might be worth looking into. If your daughter qualified, maybe you could get the OT and Dyslexia therapy paid for.

Just back from meeting with the principal at the public school. VERY impressed by how eager she is to accommodate DD. She is thinking of assigning a teacher who has had good luck with anxious kids before and is willing to try to place DD's gifted friend in the same class so they can be enrichment partners. Agreed with the dual level reading approach and really seems to grasp the situation. Big issue is DD has a paralyzing fear of color charts used to document kids' behavior. It is one of her biggest anxiety triggers. The teacher she selected has a huge color chart in the middle of the teaching area. Another teacher is not using a color chart this year (working on acknowledging feelings, etc instead and moving away from public displays of performance level) but principal doesn't think she would be a match in other ways. With this whole complex situation it seems that the color chart is proving to be the stumbling block.

BTW first question DD asked with both public and private was "Do they have a color chart there?" It doesn't matter that she doesn't misbehave in school the chart represents a threat that she may get in trouble. I think she also feels bad for other kids who are having their colors changed. There was a physical change in her demeanor when she asked at the private and the K1 teacher told her that they don�t use them.
Anyone else have experience with this?

Pemberley-- oh, gosh, yes. Our kindergarten teacher had something like that. I think it was "sunny status" or "cloud status." It is NOT a good classroom management technique. Nor is it state of the art.

Here's why: an anxious, overthinking kid (say, like mine, or yours) doesn't even always get WHY they were moved to cloud status (or red, whatever). They just know they're in trouble; they don't know how long they will be there; they don't know if there's anything they can do to get out of trouble; and they don't know if a further hammer blow is coming (what if I go lower than red? will I be kicked out of class?). They imagine the worst, and it distracts them from real learning AND puts them in distress at the same time. And yes, as you noted, for a fearful child it's not just about them-- any child getting their color changed is enough to wreck them mentally and emotionally.

For these kids, this kind of system just leads to more anxiety. It's pretty horrible.

What is needed is a positive reinforcement system. Our teacher from last year had a "thank you jar"-- if a child did something (anything) good, they could write their name on a thank you ticket and put it in the jar. A ticket would be pulled for various privileges like line leader-- if you did a lot of good things it upped your chances at the cool jobs. By the second week of the school the children were eating out of her hand; they would have done anything for her. Basically, just from being thanked and noticed when they did the right thing.

(The color change chart is also bad behavioral psychology even for non-troubled children: it rewards bad behavior with attention and neglects good behavior altogether. Very shabby IMO.)

I don't know what to suggest in terms of negotiations with the principal and teachers-- teachers HATE it when you mess with their classroom management techniques, and a principal will always back up the teacher's right to choose their technique-- but yes, this could be a stressful situation for your DD.

So sorry your DD is in this anxious place.

DeeDee

I agree with DeeDee on all counts, including, unfortunately that it's the teacher's right to choose. You can try giving a book such as 'The Inner Wealth Initiative: The Nurtured Heart Approach for Education' Howard Glasser and Tom Grove
which goes on on this topic in great detail - in hows and whys.

Alternatively - you may have to adress this topic directly with DD. Sounds terrible, but you may want to make a 'silly color wheel' with non-sequiturs colors such as 'Rainbow' 'Lavender' and 'Plaid' and hang it up and see how much humor can be created around it. You can give your child a timer, and ask her to order you around for 5 minutes and then move the color wheel to a silly color and explain why you 'deserved' that. You can ask her to list some 'intermediate steps' of new home color wheels until she finally works up the nerve to use a red,yellow and green one at home.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_(psychology) for more info - but remember to go for lots of humor and overexaggeration. I would treat it like any other fear - find the edge where it's funny instead of 'shut down' -causing. Maybe a blank color wheel that says "I love you" on each segment to start with. If she is willing to talk about her perfect color wheel,the best ideas will come from her own mind.

It's a thought anyway.

I think the thing to keep in mind is that now that you know how downright dangerous schools can be for gifties, you don't have to commit to finishing the year in any particular classroom. You don't have to tell her that, but just you knowing it in your bones will ease the whole situation.

Love and more love,
Grinity