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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 332
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 332 |
In response to the reasons behind the creations of schools...
I am sure child labor / immigration / ideals all played a part, but what I really am concerned about is the system that was created. The system that was created was based on ideas about learning and teaching that we now know don't have a lot of scientific basis.
Now I hope I make sense as I am trying to type while listening to this annoying singing vtech toy next to me lol.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 332
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Hi Islandofapples,
This is a topic a love, so can go on forever about it - I tried not to... but I couldn't help it... Please don't feel obliged to read it all...
I am certainly not naive enough to think that democracy can ever really be fully functional, but but because something isn't 100% achievable doesn't make it not a worthwhile goal (for example we don't stop trying to improve the health of the community - or even an individual - even though we can never have everyone 100% healthy). I agree with this. I am definitely an idealist. We try to be (live and eat) "green" and I have a website based on teaching others how to "be green." Sometimes it feels like everything I try to do is pointless. I can't protect my child from all these chemicals because they are everywhere. I can't even eat really healthy all the time, but DH and I both agree that we still need to try. I agree that realistically people's lives get in the way of participating in society in an informed way. Before I had my daughter I read 4 newspapers a day. I was so excited to go on maternity leave because I figured I'd just spend my days bouncing my baby on my knee while I caught up on world events. The reality was I barely picked up a newspaper for 3 years! But it's an easy habit to get out of, which makes a strong media and school system all the more important - because if you're not looking for information it's all the more important that the information you do stumble across is impartial and accurate. This bothered me a little because it reminded me of how I used to be. I kept up with all the current events and I was reading so many books on the Middle East, China, globalization, etc. I always read the news every day. Then, I started to realize I was feeling cynical, depressed, and stressed out. I'd call it existential depression. I don't know if other people get like this just from watching the news. I seem to be really affected by this stuff. (This makes me sound loony, but DH and I watched a whole bunch of CSI one time and I cried that night a lot because I couldn't handle that people really did those kinds of things to other people. I just watched all of 24 with him with no issue, so I don't know why it affected me so much.) I was reading Eckhart Tolle at one point (spiritual guy, very Eastern spirituality type of stuff) and he said we are all fascinated with negative news, violence and imagery... We go to the movies and pay to see it, even. He said it satisfied our "pain body" as he called it. I think that is around when I decided to take a break from all the news and choose it very selectively. I feel guilty that I've stuck my head in the sand in some ways, but I feel so much happier now. I choose what things I want to work on (like keeping chemicals out of my home, buying organic, not using pesticides on our lawn, etc.) Those are the things I feel like I can actually have some control over. Maybe other people feel overwhelmed by it all, too? I haven't seen evidence that this is actually the case, but I guess it might be possible. We certainly are bombarded with more negative news stories, pictures and videos than we ever have been in all of human history. It makes you feel like the human race might be hopeless, yet for every one negative story, there are 100 positive ones that go untold. I agree with the rest of what you said about education, but I don't really know if what you said here: "In my view unless education increases in perceived value for it's own sake, not much will change." can happen with the way our economic system is right now. I feel like a lot of people only view an education as something you purchase so you can make more money later...
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 282
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The problem may be somewhat more challenging because we have so many Spanish speakers, but it's hard to say. At some point, though, there definitely has to be motivation in the home or in the student to learn the language well enough to succeed in the job market. Do any teachers here know how well the average immigrant student learns English after 6 or 12 years?
I like the idea of emphasizing the idea of citizenship in schools. It's important for every student to understand how the government works and the responsibilities of each citizen. I wish we did more citizenship too--it alarms me to think that we are raising generations who may feel completely disconnected from the political process--it's hard to have a "we the people" based government if most people don't understand that that means "the people" have a role to play in their government! Outcomes for English language learners are pretty diverse, as are the approaches/programs. When English proficiency is measured in students, schools are looking at two different types of language development--social/conversational language development, which typically emerges first; and academic language proficiency, which typically develops more slowly. A student with a high level of proficiency in social English may appear to be more proficient than they are, which depresses academic performance. Social proficiency can lead others to overestimate the amount of classroom language that is independently understandable. One chart I saw stated that advanced fluency (social and academic language) takes 5-7 years in a U.S. school, but it wasn't clear to me whether that was an average length of time generally, or if it represented the length of time under "best practice" conditions. Advanced fluency does not necessarily represent comparable fluency to native english speakers either. Among fifth graders who have been in school since K, I see quite a range of english literacy skills (listening, speaking, reading, writing). Lately I�m hearing that some of the most promising outcomes are in well implemented two-way immersion programs (aka dual immersion programs); in which an equal number of spanish speakers and english speakers are grouped together. There are 50/50 models and 90/10 models (90% of instruction in spanish in K, gradually shifting balance until it is 50/50 in upper elementary). These programs appear to have stronger outcomes and to achieve a higher level of bilingualism when compared to transitional bilingual education models). In transitional bilingual programs there appears to be more loss of native language literacy. This bothered me a little because it reminded me of how I used to be. I kept up with all the current events and I was reading so many books on the Middle East, China, globalization, etc. I always read the news every day. Then, I started to realize I was feeling cynical, depressed, and stressed out. I'd call it existential depression. I don't know if other people get like this just from watching the news. I seem to be really affected by this stuff.
(This makes me sound loony, but DH and I watched a whole bunch of CSI one time and I cried that night a lot because I couldn't handle that people really did those kinds of things to other people. I feel guilty that I've stuck my head in the sand in some ways, but I feel so much happier now. I choose what things I want to work on (like keeping chemicals out of my home, buying organic, not using pesticides on our lawn, etc.) Those are the things I feel like I can actually have some control over.
Maybe other people feel overwhelmed by it all, too? I haven't seen evidence that this is actually the case, but I guess it might be possible. We certainly are bombarded with more negative news stories, pictures and videos than we ever have been in all of human history. It makes you feel like the human race might be hopeless, yet for every one negative story, there are 100 positive ones that go untold. I'm right there with you, particularly since becoming a parent. The reality of what people do to other people became horrifying and real to me in a completely new way once I had a child. I've found that I cannot read the details of violence in Sudan at all. I still have a really visceral reaction to an article I read at least 6 years ago. I don't recall being overwhelmed by CSI (usually), but I get what you're saying, because SVU was impossible for me to watch for quite some time. I suspect that as my children age, the types of issues that I can't fully engage with will change as well. Right now it's the issues which involve violence towards children, teens and young adults that overwhelm me. I think that there is a difference between being an ostrich and being aware of your own limitations. We don't do anything positive for the world when we become paralyzed by fear or hopelessness. I've settled on headline skimming for paralyzing issues that I can't in good conscience ignore. It keeps me from drifting into apathy, respects the limits of what I can handle and preserves the energy I need in order to have a positive impact on the things within my control. Not that I'm unwilling to spout off about the things I cannot control  . Apologies for topic drift.... 
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 487
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...
I'm right there with you, particularly since becoming a parent. The reality of what people do to other people became horrifying and real to me in a completely new way once I had a child. I've found that I cannot read the details of violence in Sudan at all. I still have a really visceral reaction to an article I read at least 6 years ago. I don't recall being overwhelmed by CSI (usually), but I get what you're saying, because SVU was impossible for me to watch for quite some time. I suspect that as my children age, the types of issues that I can't fully engage with will change as well. Right now it's the issues which involve violence towards children, teens and young adults that overwhelm me.
...  Me too! Great discussion, I enjoyed reading it.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,694
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I don't read or watch the news at all, and haven't for years. But I still manage to hear when something happens that I really do need to read about. And I definitely read rather than watch, mostly though because (if it's available) you can get so much more information much faster. I hate that online news writing is getting shorter and shorter with more and more video being integrated instead.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,840
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http://www.insidehighered.com/layout/set/popup/news/2011/08/02/qtMoody's says. "Unless students limit their debt burdens, choose fields of study that are in demand, and successfully complete their degrees on time, they will find themselves in worse financial positions and unable to earn the projected income that justified taking out their loans in the first place."
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 487
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Predicting the future is always hard. You can never guarentee the boom field now will still be booming when you finish, let alone years from now. That's why I think you need to something you love.
Having said that, the system here is very different, the debt is lower and paying it back is linked to income.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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Today, I feel, education has been reduced in many ways to a competition that has little to do with learning. Which means that once you've got what you need to get the position you aspire to, you stop. You switch on American Idol. You absorb the drip feed of subjective news your exposed to from the bits you see on TV, the headlines you skim and so on. Formal education is just a certification process these days. You get the certificate to get the job. It's mostly a waste of time and a huge financial burden on students. When I attended college and law school, I was just there to get certified. Most real education is learning tacit knowledge. And, in many cases, you need the tacit knowledge *before* taking the formal courses for the courses to be helpful. We have education all messed up because it's using a factory model.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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More on debt, this time from the Atlantic. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/the-debt-crisis-at-american-colleges/243777/They essentially wrote the student loan law, in which the fine-print says they aren't "dischargable." So even if you file for bankruptcy, the payments continue due. Hence these stern word from Barmak Nassirian of the American Association of College Registrars and Admissions Officers. "You will be hounded for life," he warns. "They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. You become ineligible for federal employment." He adds that any professional license can be revoked and Social Security checks docked when you retire. We can't think of any other statute with such sadistic provisions. Yoked for life.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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OP
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This thread has discussed the relative merits of humanities and more career-oriented majors. Many universities may not be good places to study literature and history, because many of the professors don't respect the subjects they are supposed to be teaching. They have left a vacuum that is being filled, at much less expense, by the Teaching Company (now know as Great Courses), as discussed in a recent essay: http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_3_the-great-courses.htmlHEATHER MAC DONALD Great Courses, Great Profits: A teaching company gives the public what the academy no longer supplies: a curriculum in the monuments of human thought. City Journal Summer 2011 Joseph Epstein explains why fewer students major in English: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576468011530847064.htmlWhat Killed American Lit. Today's collegians don't want to study it�who can blame them? by Joseph Epstein Wall Street Journal August 27, 2011 I think parents who want their children to be liberally educated should look at home schooling curricula such as the one in the "Well Trained Mind" book for classical homeschoolers.
"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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