Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Less Academics, More Narcissism (at U. Cal)

Wow, that's really awful --- especially in light of the increase in faculty being only 28%. You may or may not be aware of university faculty hiring sprees earlier in the last decade when the NIH budget was increased dramatically. The huge number of new faculty is partially responsible for making it next to impossible to get a research grant (acceptance rates at NIH are commonly in the 5-10% range now, sometimes way less). So it seems that all those new faculty are just a drop in the bucket compared to administrators...ouch.



Here we go again with the distracting statements that deflect attention away from the topic at hand.

1. No one is bashing "diversity" itself. No one has said that minorities or whoever should be kept out of universities. Please don't make insinuations like that.

2. The topic is a perceived over-emphasis on administrator hires, including too many people focused on "diversity and inclusion" to the point where much more than just "computer science" has been cut. The cut courses included master�s degrees in electrical and computer engineering and comparative literature, plus courses in French, German, Spanish, and English literature. People have made what appear to be legitimate criticisms of this practice (which, again, I think is nonsensical).

3. This topic gets to the heart of gifted education. Most of the lost offerings listed above would be attractive to students who are "gifted in languages/humanities."

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting fed up with the increasingly poor standards of debate on this forum lately. We used to stick to the point and not throw ideology around as a way of silencing critics (and this tactic, when attempted, never worked before here).

If anyone thinks that the positions listed in the OP are more important than the cancelled courses, by all means, make your points. Use data or other objective measures --- that would be great. But please don't squelch discussion by making false accusations or introducing misleading statements that distract from the actual topic.

I never said 1. so that you're just pulling that out of your head.

As for 2. I was questioning what majors the students themselves are choosing???? Are there enough students choosing majors in languages/sciences for these faculty to remain in the staff? I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Also, how many students are getting diversity degrees? Maybe for some weird reason at UC there is a larger than normal number of students getting a degree related to diversity. I really don't find that strange that a University would have one department that is significantly larger than another (this happens quite often, actually).

3. Sure, gifted children could be interested in those degrees but why would they need to go specifically to UC? There are many universities out there that still provide degrees in foreign languages/hard sciences and while UC might be cutting back in those areas other universities could be strengthening their programs.

I'm not arguing that a certain degree of politics is played at the university level. I'm an academic and I know for sure that there's a lot that goes one (and, yes, when it comes to hirings especially). But I also know that what reaches the press is not always what it seems so I'm not just going to be up in arms about these diversity hirings without knowing more about the UC system.


I don't always come here that often and as of late less and less as life has caught up with me. In the past I normally found myself agreeing with much of what you say. However, this is just horribly insulting. In my post I gave a specific example of a my alma matter who had done something similar to UC and their reasons behind it. I wasn't just trying to distract from what was actually being discussed here. If anything YOUR post made some fairly broad assumptions and tried to ignore the point I made by covering it in a guise of "false accusations".

UC San Diego Graduates in 2010 - percent of bachelor's degrees awarded by majors http://www.sandiego.edu/facts/cds/2010/cdsj.php

Business 38.8%
Social sciences 14.5%
Communications and Journalism: 10.8%
Engineering 2.9%
Foreign Language and literature 1.9%
Compuer sciece 0.4%

Personally, I find it absolutely fundamental that any student graduating with a degree in business, social sciences, or journalism have a strong understanding of diversity and multiculturalism. This is particularly true for students living in state like California which has a diverse population.

The decisions clearly reflect trends in what students choose to major in. Also, I think it is worth noting that engineering and computer science programs are very expensive to operate in terms of equipment and resources.

A lot of what Boston posts sounds like what used to be called mysoginistic, narrow minded, and old-fashioned. �But I always had a problem with diversity tolerating everyone else except a few certain crowds. �I dislike how close this thought comes to the christian "equal time" argument because it makes me question how many of my thoughts are mine and how much is my upbringing...anyway. �How could policy-making decisions of higher learning institutes not belong on a gifted education forum? �Who else would be so interested in such a topic? �Should we leave this conversation just to the business investors to decide what constitutes an education. �Everybody's entitled to their opinion. �
"You be you, let me be me... Only possibility I can see for a world in harmony.". (old hippy rap by day)
Maybe after lunch or in a few days I'll give it some thought and make an opinion on the value I perceive in diversity classes.

Thank you. That's exactly what I was wondering about.

Another quote:
"it's the mark of a good education if you can consider an idea without necessarily buying it". -somebody wise

And, for any geeks who like this stuff. You might enjoy seeing how different it is at UCLA. Very few business majors there, still plenty of social science, more engineering. http://www.aim.ucla.edu/CDS/cdsForm.asp#cdsJ

My dad's opinion is that the definition of using good manners is �if you don't make the people around you uncomfortable then you're using good manners. �My life experience is that when you go somewhere new it's you that has to take it upon yourself to adjust. �If you're teaching good manners in the face of diversity, well it's the same as good manners anywhere else. �You can probably tell if you're being rude by the reaction you get once or twice if you didn't already know. Rudeness is an option. �Tolerance, good choices, and moral values ingrain themselves in you from yourself, your friends, and your family. �I guess some people go to college to change who they are,? �If by diversity you mean learning about other cultures, isn't that history and social studies, or civics? �If the chancellor for diversity and inclusion means a compliance lawyer I guess the salary's just a retainer and I don't blame them for getting a lawyer. �If the undergraduate diversity liaison is just a guidance counselor I hope they just got some extra credentials and specialize in diversity. �I hope there's not that much problems on a college campus for diversity issues to be their whole job description. �The staff diversity liason, well the diversity chancellor should just make company tolerance and diversity policy and whoever doesn't comply gets canned. �Shouldn't �the �liaison �just be an employee liaison to help the staff, not just with diversity (discrimination?). �
Maybe I misunderstood the vocabulary and these words mean something different than I thought. �If not then somebody's trying to treat adults like preschoolers. �Unless they're adapting to train students to go international for business. �Or maybe what's been said here twice is correct, this is a conversation for the decision makers of that college only to have and not for me, a SAHM pre-school parent, to contemplate making an opinion about. �I could have spent this time better dusting the furniture or making a snack. �I just, being a parent, I'm all of the sudden concerned with what is an education, what is the purpose, what is the goal? �What's happening in the world? �Why? �Things change. �Maybe change starts with a thought.

That is a very strong and unjustified accusation. You owe me an apology.

I'm sorry for saying your threads seemed to be insensitive to a variety of minorities including women amongst them.