For the third year in a row, I'm faced with the recommendation of having my daughter skip a grade. When she was in Pre-K, her school principal suggested it; when she was in K, the principal and superintendent said they'd never seen anyone as advanced as she is and had no idea what to do with her aside from skipping or getting her into a gifted school... so I moved to a new district known for its gifted program, and nothing is different. The principal here has also suggested skipping. I just don't want to.

My kiddo is in 1st grade and reads on a 5th grade level and does math on a 3rd grade level. She is significantly beyond her peers socially as well, but she still loves her friends.

I want so badly to make it work. I don't want to rush her life along. I don't want her to find out there's no Santa a year sooner, or have her friends driving a year sooner, or have her dating a year sooner, or leaving for college a year sooner.

I need advice.

If you've chosen to keep a highly gifted kid in his or her normal grade, how did you make it work? They will likely bump her to a 2nd grade class for reading, but the principal said he's never heard of them doing that for math at this age. Last year she got different homework from her peers, but still had to sit through the same lessons (ABCs, 123s) that she learned when she was 18 months old. I can't even imagine how deadly boring it is for her to sit through phonics every day now, though she rarely complains. She just says school is too long.

For right now, I'm not looking for the "hey, you really should skip her" advice. I may get there, but I'm still hoping to find a way to keep her in 1st grade but with work that's challenging to her. Any advice or experiences to share?

I sounds like the perfect situation for a skip. I don't think not skipping could be made to work. Differentiation doesn't work.

Yes, schools do not suggest whole-grade acceleration lightly as it results in the child leaving the school one year sooner, which may translate to a loss of funding for that one pupil for that one year. As you mentioned, schools tend to suggest whole-grade acceleration when they have no idea what to do with a child.

If you recently moved in order for her to attend the gifted school this year and she already loves her friends in October, it sounds like she makes friends quickly.

Because this school is known for its gifted program, have they seen others like her before? Do they have others like her there now? Could they create a cluster group of kids with similar readiness and ability, possibly encompassing several grades?

Ultimately having a happy, well-adjusted kid is the goal: that's what works.

Since she performs math 2 years ahead and reads 4 years ahead, do you consider that she is rushing her life along?

The gifted ones sometimes figure this out quite quickly; They do not necessarily learn this factoid from others. They may cite "evidence" and inconsistencies which they have observed which led them to their conclusion. Upon quick-thinking and supportive conversation at home they may end up successfully humoring their classmates for years. You may want to plan now for that conversation, lest she be the child to present her findings to others at school thereby bringing down the wrath of many angry moms upon her.

Realistically, if she is 2-4 years ahead of her classmates in academics and noticeably ahead of them socially, she may not have friends among them a decade from now. They may simply be on a different wavelength. She may become a social isolate.

This is largely determined by family values and is not grade-dependent.

Some families find a gap year works, some enjoy early college, some may find local college to be an option.

1) It may be difficult but parents need to realize that our dreams for our kids do not always match the reality of the kid we have. The book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children offers compassionate insight and shares the deep need these kids have to be accepted and supported for who they are.
2) You may wish to take a look at the IOWA Acceleration Scale (link- http://www.greatpotentialpress.com/iowa-acceleration-scale-3rd-edition-complete-kit) which helps parents and schools objectively weigh pros and cons regarding whole-grade acceleration.
3) What you are going through may be common; After time, parents look back and report they were in denial about the differences between their child and others, having been downplaying the differences.

Just focusing on the word "normal" here, some may say that as parents of gifted kids we have a new normal:
1) Our kids are normal but they are not typical.
2) Normal grade for these kids may be the grade at which they find intellectual peers, as opposed to being in a grade with age-mates.

Would the principal be willing to set that precedent? Would he be supportive of subject acceleration for math... testing and placing her with the appropriate math challenge and support? Even this is not ideal as gifted kids may need both appropriate placement and pacing; they often require fewer repetitions to learn something.

Have you asked her what she wants?

1) If not whole-grade acceleration, subject acceleration: Testing/placement in appropriate grade-level for math, reading?
2) Have you considered homeschooling?
3) Have you had your child tested? If so, what does the psych suggest?

Can't help you as I haven't been in your situation. I guess it is a change from people posting that they want their kid to have a grade skip but the school won't agree.

I don't think any of your reasons are as important as her being happy at school. Neither of my kids have ever really believed in Santa and it hasn't harmed them much.

My child is only 3, so I have no BTDT advice, but I do teach 1st and 2nd grade math, so maybe I can offer a different perspective.

I know there are a lot of people on this forum who have been burned by "differentiation" and I understand their opinions on the matter. Here's how I see it... Differentiation can work for a gifted child, but it is rare and dependent on the teacher's attitude toward giftedness, the teacher-child relationship, rigidness of the curriculum (and ability of the teacher to work within this rigidity), and the spoken & unspoken rules of the school/district. I will also say that the larger the gap between your child's abilities and the average abilities of the class, the less likely your child is to receive adequate instruction. (You should also consider the gap between your child and the "lowest" child in the room, as the focus is often more on bringing up the "low" kids than ensuring progress for the "high" kids.)

Here's how I currently make it work for my 2nd grade classes (The same model works for 1st grade, but right now I don't have a wide range of abilities in my first grade classes. Just an odd year.)...

1. We typically start with a short activity or whole group instruction that I see as beneficial to all the students in the room. I try to keep this short (less than 15 minutes).

2. Seat work - next the kids do problems from the text, or another assignment. Often this is skill practice for my gifted kids, but if the class assignment isn't beneficial for them, I'll assign different work.

3. Small groups - while the kids are doing their assigned problems, I pull 4 or 5 kids at a time for small group work. Each kid gets different problems, so the "average" kid might be building 86 with base ten blocks and showing me how to change it to make 46... but a gifted kid might be building 1,862 and showing me how to change it to make 1,462.

4. Packets - when the kids are done with the daily assignment, they can work on a fun packet. My kids love doing math mazes that involve algebraic thinking. Often I'll make multiple packets. The majority of the class might get a set of mazes that deal with addition of numbers under 25, while the gifted child might get a set that deals with bigger numbers (or maybe multiplication if he/she is ready).

5. Homework - Not everyone needs the same homework, but it sounds like your school is already open to this (many are not!).

This is just an idea of how differentiation has worked for me. However, as I stated earlier, the larger the gap between your child and the rest of the group, the more difficult it becomes to provide instruction that provides meaningful progress (and some teachers are better at it than others). Your child is 2 years ahead in math, and that is particularly difficult for most 1st grade teachers because the students aren't as independent as they are in later grades.

Hope this helps!

My DS9 is not skipped, though looking at the general experience here one would expect him to be (the year in which he was 6 on this date, he was reading like an adult and finishing the maths syllabus normally done by 16yos). In the first couple of years of school he had enough difficulty with handwriting and certain social/emotional stuff that, though school brought up the issue and we discussed it seriously, we all decided it wasn't in his interests to skip. These days, he easily could; but now he has a solid social position, school is used to meeting his needs, and we're looking towards his next school, which may involve his boarding hundreds of miles away, something we're not at all keen on his doing while younger than his peers. So we're still not doing it.

It is not ideal, even though we are very, very lucky with his school. The (private) school is extremely well resourced with classes around 15, setting in most subjects by this point, and subject-specialist (crucial, I think) teachers with time, skill and willingness to differentiate properly. He has had his own maths work all along and the school does most reading individually anyway; he's always been encouraged to choose books that are appropriate for him and allowed to bring books from home if he chooses. They seem to do a lot of guided discussion in class, which he enjoys, and tasks are differentiated by outcome - it seems to work that each child is encouraged to the next level. Science uses well-equipped laboratories and does plenty of experiments, which makes up for the fact that he normally knows the theory being explored before they start.

He's had a certain amount of teasing from children in years above his, when they've discovered he can do things they can't, and school has dealt with this well. His own year has generally been very accepting. Fortunately he is not always the best at everything (although of course he is in maths, and in the early years his reading was way ahead of the others): there are several very clever children in the year.

Overall, it's working for him. I don't think it could possibly have worked in a traditional primary school setting with one teacher teaching almost all subjects to an unset class, though.

What is the gifted program like and when does it start? Has your child had an IQ test?

My children are not profoundly gifted, but neither is skipped. DD is not a good skip candidate due to emotional immaturity and anxiety/depression. DS IS a good skip candidate, but for right now we are not skipping him, and we probably will not do so, although it is not off the table. Their respective schools brought up skipping for both of them (for DD, it was discussed as "Many people would want to skip her, BUT..."; for DS it was lightly suggested and we nixed it). However, we are fortunate to have a full-day public gifted school available to us so this is much less of an issue than it would be for others. (School starts in gr 2, so our kids have to deal with school for K and 1.)

I think it is important to understand that not skipping is not a benign choice. There might be good reasons not to skip, but I believe it is crucial to understand how not skipping could cause much more profound problems (crippling perfectionism, imposter syndrome, underachievement than friends driving a year earlier. (My dd will be in this situation next year and she really doesn't care--she is thriving with the skip. While I will not be thrilled for her to go to college a year early she, at 12, is already very excited about the prospect of being done with her masters and working in her chosen field sooner.) Do you know how unusual it is for the school to be suggesting a skip? I know you don't want advice to skip her, but it seems impossible to respond to this without saying that it seems unlikely her intellectual needs will be met without a skip. They might not be met even with a skip, which of course could be a reason to keep her in her current grade. Have you considered homeschooling? And are you familiar with this site: http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/

Good luck to you, I know these decisions are tough!

A tale of 2 kids:

My older DD (who is borderline MG) was born at the end of October and we (barely) grade skipped her to 1st garde at 5. My youger DD (PG) was born at the end of March and we skipped her to 1st grade at 5 as well. We moved last year to a school district with dedicated gifted program. My older DD is getting by (I even enouraged her to drop from TAG program) but it still does not challenge my my younger DD and we may have to subject accelerate again. (she is asking for it).

I prefer subject acceleration because when they compete in tournaments or talent search, sometimes they enter as their respective grades instead of age. (My PG DD still gets qualifying score for SCAT and EXPLORE even with the grade skip). It is difficult to do subject acceleration in elementary years. (I have seen the successful advocacy in another thread but the odds are not in our favor especially with budget cuts.) If nothing available, I would vote for skip (at least) a grade.

Some may find that a PG child still languishes in this environment; LOG matters.

Mommajay, you may wish to look into applying for your child to be a Davidson Young Scholar (DYS) if you have not done so already, and possibly consider the Davidson Academy of Reno Nevada for middle and high school (link- http://www.davidsongifted.org/)

Whole-grade acceleration is supported by research.

On the other hand this may be cause for considering multiple accelerations paced appropriately to the individual child, throughout the school years. I am familiar with acceleration up to three grade-levels with additional coursework and projects in areas of interest sought out and successfully completed independently by that child. (An acceleration of 3 grade levels alone did not provide enough intellectual stimulation for that child.)

THIS.

If the school is suggesting it, that tends to mean that the child is probably EG/PG.

I know that it was NOT in my best interests to remain with agemates-- I was friendless my last three years in K-12, and this had profound consequences later in life. It was also possible for me to pass all of my AP/college prep coursework while having a 30%+ absenteeism rate, and I was plenty clever enough to make sure that my mom never KNEW that I was skipping school that much. Oh, and when I was there I wasn't... all there, if that makes sense. Yeah, being impaired definitely made things better in those (seemingly) remedial classes, that's for sure.

^ just wanted to drive Deacongirl's point home.


Looking back, (I have a PG DD14) I really don't think that we COULD have kept DD grouped with agemates. Even the most able of them (and they are her friends) tend to be years away from her academic interests and abilities.

What I will say, though, is that with an accelerated student, it is very important to LET that child be his/her chronological age OUTSIDE of school. Seek out mixed age groups, and let him/her gravitate where s/he will. The upshot is that my DD doesn't regard AGE as a qualification for friendships.

She's friends with people based upon shared interests and values, and upon the ability to enjoy one another's company.

Most of her classmates are either 18 or will be turning 18 soon. They drive-- though not all of them do. She doesn't. This really doesn't bother her.

The one major issue that has cropped up in having a precocious high school senior is that she probably isn't ready to "go off" to college. She WILL be living with a parent for that transition at 15yo. But we didn't limit her to the local college. She chose that on her own, on the basis of the connections she has in the community, and on the strength of one of the specialty programs at the institution, plus the fact that, for undergrad, it probably isn't THAT critical where you go. It'll be more or less free for her to attend undergrad. Sensible, right?

Anyway, I think that the only way that we could have avoided skips (we've done 3) is to have homeschooled using something really peculiar. None of us had it in us, honestly. One thing that has made the age less important is that we're with a virtual school-- so DD doesn't spend ALL of her time immersed in an "older" kid-culture.

I agree that for the most part "in-class differentiation" simply doesn't work. I wish that it did.




This is what we've done with our DD. She still finds the graduation requirements for HS to be utterly inane, but she has a LOT of other things in her life that she enjoys.

It makes me very sad that school is generally something that she sees as a pain in the rear end, and something that most frequently gets in the way of learning, rather than facilitating it...

but she's had a lot of OTHER enriching things in her life, and so we're minimizing the relative impact of that setting.

I don't actually think that most school can fit PG kids-- not even with regular radical accelerations in the picture. We didn't understand that fully either. What I wish we had done:

Gr 1-2 DD4-5 (homeschool)
Gr 3 DD6 (virtual school)
Gr4 (GT) DD7
Gr5 (GT) DD8
Gr 6+7 (GT) DD9
(Up to this point, this IS more or less what we did-- we just didn't formalize the last acceleration until the end of 9th grade)
Gr 8 (GT) DD10
Gr 9 + DD11
Gr 10 + dual enrollment DD12
Gr11 + dual enrollment DD13-- graduation.

The last couple of years have been really bad as far as fit goes. Visiting college campuses (and working on one over the summer in a research internship) has made the ill fit all the more apparent to my DD. She's SO done with this. She is in dual enrollment and AP course work. It's not enough. The ONLY classes that even feel "real" to her are things like AP physics and dual enrollment English composition. They aren't hard, either-- just closer to what she needs.

I did not want to have a 14yo high school graduate. No way. If anyone had asked me 14 years ago what I wanted for my DD, I would have ticked "normal" as the trajectory. I wanted to have my career, have my DD go to a public school like every other kid, etc. That's not the hand that she was dealt, and it's therefore not the one that we got, either.

Sending you a pm

I totally agree and find the evidence in favor of acceleration very convincing. I was trying to see it from the OPs point of view. Because she is reluctant to do a single skip I think multiple skips are not on the table...but a single skip with additional subject acceleration might meet the child's needs.

A lot depends on the child's temperment. That's one reason the IAS is so useful.

It's easy for those of us who have done accelerations to look at "PG" and think that it's impossible to keep them in a classroom with neurotypical agemates, but if the child has the right disposition that may not be true.

ha - i came here to say just that. my kiddo is nowhere close to PG, but she still can't be in a class with agemates without falling into a severe depression. she needed a triple+ skip this year AND homeschooling - she's just too much of a raging perfectionist/delightful weirdo to be in class with other 5 year olds. i hope this will change as she becomes more sure of who she is and what she likes - but, like everyone else, we're just taking it one year at a time.

i think it's awesome if a PG kid can enjoy school with age-mates AND still be him/herself without the usual problems. for me, the deciding factor was simply whether or not my kid was actually thriving - and that included a whole range of criteria. mommajay, it sounds like your girl is pretty happy with her friends right now - and if you (and the school) can meet her intellectual needs in other ways, maybe that's just fine. your kid might want more down the line, and i'm sure you'll cross those bridges when you come to them!

all the best!

You are going to get tons of advice telling you to skip. Above all else, I think you need to trust your own mommy gut instinct and your DD's judgment/preference.

In my opinion, it is okay to not grade-skip your DD. While I am not inclined to share horror stories, there have been several double-grade skips in my family and with hindsight (college & beyond), I can honestly say that the landscape changes over time and the ledger of advantages/disadvantages shifts. Consequences are not always forseeable and individual experiences will vary.

My DS10 is a DYS and in fifth grade. A number of school personnel had mentioned grade skipping, but that wasn't what I wanted for my DS and also not what he wanted for himself. Back in 1st grade, he read 5th grade fiction independently (higher non-fiction as is typcial). As for math, I didn't bother assessing him in 1st grade but he tested fine with 5th grade math as a second grader when we underwent the process of subject acceleration in math. DS was accelerated to 4th grade level math in 2nd grade and then accelerated to Pre-algebra in 4th grade and is currently studying Algebra through an online course with a one-day a week teacher provided by the school district. From 1st through 4th grade, he was in the gifted classes, which use materials at least one grade above as well as novels to supplement the standard textbooks. His 1st grade teacher had bookcases full of 3rd/4th grade books due to previously teaching 3rd grade. DS probably read through her whole collection due to finishing his work early.

This has worked for my DS so far. He is well-adjusted with no emotional or behavior issues. However, it is important to note that neither DS nor I limit or defer learning to school. He is an avid reader and gets most of his reading material through the public library or purchase. While he uses the school library, its selections are clearly limited. The internet has been a great source of learning as well and he has had his own laptop for a couple of years. Many families have successfully avoided skipping also by focusing time/mental energy on the arts, music, chess, sports, etc.

Please note that I am not advising you not to skip. Only you and your DD can make the best decision for yourselves. However, you also should not feel pressured to skip.

I think it's really important that the reason for a skip (or not) boil down to what best serves the CHILD in question.

NOT what best serves:

the school
parents
neighbors
extended family
friends with more NT children...

Too often those other things get rolled into this decision and wind up being inappropriate pressures on parents. Being aware of where some of that is coming from is important here, I think.

Or perhaps the OP's reluctance to skip is indicating a correct reading of the child, and multiple skips will never be on the table. To reiterate and agree, I think a valid reason for rejecting a single skip can be that it wouldn't significantly help any problem - especially if it also creates problems of its own. This was a factor for DS: in his strength areas, he was *so* far ahead that one year's skip wasn't even going to scratch the surface, while at the same time, he'd have suffered from age-inappropriate expectations in areas where he was age-typical (chiefly handwriting). If, when he was six, he'd (somehow, with some set of accommodations for those areas) been skipped to a level where he'd have stretched intellectually without needing special treatment, he'd have finished this school by now or be about to this year, and then we'd be totally stuck - none of the senior schools that we're looking at now would in any way be an appropriate environment for DS9, and I don't see that any new possibilities would have opened up.

My son needed to skip K and go right into 1st. But that wasn't going to happen. K was a waste but he was happy enough. They did end up making him a reading group of one (reading chapter books...not beginning chapter books but real 3-5th grade chapter books) plus they had additional reading enrichment time with another teacher with a group of advanced reader pulled from all the K classes. All in all though it was way too easy for him.

So we took advantage of a school of choice Dual Language program 1/2 day English 1/2 day Spanish for first grade. The English side was still too easy and I am not thinking there was much differentiation. They didn't think he was as advanced as I did. Spanish portion of the day kept him learning and challenged and even frustrated at times (which was good for him).

Second grade two gems of teachers (one Spanish, one English) and boy did they get him (they were also gifted certified) and at the end of the first 9 weeks were suggesting a skip to third. Well no way was I going to skip him out of this lovely setting. They continued to differentiate (really, not just lip service) and he thrived. Inside the classroom he subject accelerated math. She would get the class working on a warm up exercise, show my son what he was going to do that day...took 3 minutes, and then he worked independently while she taught the rest of the class. Loved 2nd grade. Qualified for gifted.

Started out this year in 3rd. Just skipped him to 4th a couple of weeks ago. He is happy with the skip so far. He is having to work on his writing (which is probably just fine for third grade but a bit lacking for a 4th grader about to be tested in writing). Everything else he feels is at a just right level. For now.

I assume he will need another skip at some point (only because people keep telling me that). We probably will homeschool middle school (maybe allowing for another skip then if he needs it).

ETA...I guess we take it one year at a time...and if we feel he is too young at any point, there is a way to slow it down, homeschool a year in high school where he doesn't earn any "credits" but does self directed project based learning, volunteer or community service and other community learning opportunities, travel, etc. But I can't worry about how old he will be in the 11th or 12th grade now when he is 8. I have to make sure his education is just right fit for him now.

I think this is crucial.

Of course the OP knows her child best and every situation is unique. But sometimes mommy instincts are skewed. Sometimes I think that we underestimate the extent to which girls are still today socialized to please and fit in. I did not think my daughter was HG, she ended up having DYS scores. Even with that, I was still hesitant to skip her. Thanks to the encouragement of Grinity here and others, we finally pursued a skip and it was clearly the best choice for my daughter.

It may be that not skipping is best for the OP's child. But I think that the cons of not skipping need to be explored fully. And a poor academic fit in elementary school may be more damaging than future hypotheticals re: driving and dating.

Just wanted to add--from the anecdotes here clearly there are solid reasons NOT to skip for some kids. But from the OP, those reasons don't seem to be applicable. It seemed sort of a more generalized "not wanting to rush childhood" argument in favor of the status quo.

perfectly put. it's so, so easy to lose them (especially girls - who can just blend in and fade away so quickly.)

it's funny, DD5 and i were talking about this kind of stuff last night, and she pointed out she might graduate high school at 14. she said she wasn't sure about being that young in University and then suggested she might re-integrate to bricks and mortar for high school, when she would be mature enough to tough out a few years of repeated work. this insight of hers FLOORED me, but it occurred to me that the entire point of her current acceleration is to avoid her having to cope with that situation right now, when she's clearly not mature enough. (though apparently completely self-aware?!)

Yes to this. The good news is that (of course depending on LOG and the school) I believe it is actually possible that she could get what she needs in a B&M high school. I don't think for my dd that it will just be toughing it out. But I also think that had my dd been in a different setting in elementary she would not be as sure of who she is, and as confident to be herself to the world. This worries me for dd6, as we await school CogAt scores.

best of luck! the environment + personality really is everything, isn't it?

i honestly have no idea what DD will really do from middle school onward, either... who knows if her plan to repeat work, have a job, hang out with friends, get great grades and go to Uni as if she never skipped will work for her, but i do like how her "future self" appears to be so... weirdly chill. ha - we'll see how that one pans out!

+1

Agreed! While addressed primarily to the OP, these posts exist indefinitely and may be read by a wide audience, giving added benefit to discussing as many aspects as posters may have to share.

I've not come across a parent whose goal it was to grade-skip a child; nonetheless circumstances may unfold in which this becomes the path of choice (although even then it may only be regarded as the lesser of two evils). Sharing that one is in good company if acceleration becomes imminent, is worthwhile. What may seem like pressure to some may simply be open minded thoughtful discussion to another.

Agreed!

mommajay, we did not skip our EG ds and it's worked out ok. I hesitated to reply at first because most on here will know that my ds is 2e, and has quite a challenge with his e. That doesn't outweigh, imo, the intellectual strengths he has, and what we've seen with his challenge is that it's more easily coped with when he's given intellectually challenging material. I only point that out because I wanted you to know, if you have read enough and remember my ds is 2e, that the 2e piece didn't weigh into any decision to forego skips.

We have had challenges with boredom - especially during elementary. That's the downside. However, we did find ways to get intellectual challenge for our ds. The first thing we did was look for non-traditional schools in our area. Not all school districts have options, but ours does and we found that was helpful. We also afterschooled in math when our school refused to differentiate - that worked for our ds simply because he likes math. Had he not wanted to work ahead in math at home, we wouldn't have pushed it. We took advantage of camps and afterschool activities in areas of ds' interests. I think the key, for us, all along, has been to focus on ds' interests, rather than having a mindset of "what grade level" is he working at etc. Again, he was bored in school in his areas of his intellectual strengths. That's the downside.

The upside, for our ds, was staying with his age mates and not being forced to tackle things like middle-school level organizational demands, increasing amount of homework demands etc when he wasn't developmentally there yet. It's also clearer now that he's older that he is not going to want to go to college early (at this point, he's skeptical that he even wants to do any type of dual-enrollment option at our local university during high school - not because he isn't ready to do that academically, but because it's simply not what he wants). The other thing we found was that, once he did get to middle school, it was a *lot* easier to find intellectually challenging opportunities and opportunities to work ahead.

One last thing I'll mentioned, that has happened with close friends who did grade skip their dd (same age as my ds) - they were all excited about it in elementary school but have had nothing but complaints in middle school - not about the academics but about the social environment being in with students who leave toys behind and are in the midst of puberty and thinking about the opposite sex etc. This isn't a reason I would have held my ds back (or my dds), but I think that had I skipped my ds, this would have been a difficult time for him socially because of not being in-step developmentally.


I'll toss something else out here, realizing I'm most likely in the minority on this forum. A large part of my being satisfied with not having grade-skipped my ds is simply that - not wanting to rush childhood. For *me* as much as for him. That may sound horribly selfish (and possibly misguided to some), but childhood flies by so quickly. If a parents *only* reason for not skipping is that they want their kids home for those first full 17 years, I think that's ok! I really don't want to have my kids take off for college early, and I want them to enjoy their childhood. I think we've been able to do both. If there has been any "challenge" to my ds' enjoying his childhood, it hasn't come from the lack of challenge academically, it's come from his 2e challenge. I read a lot about adults saying that there are risks in not having challenge in academics along the way, but honestly, school was so danged easy for me until college, and I managed to turn into a successful adult in spite of not having grade-skipped

I am not saying that parents who's kids grade skip are doing something I don't believe in - I think it's a good option for *some* kids. Just wanted to point out that yes, there are those of us out here who chose not to grade skip and yes, it's worked out a-ok for our kids.

So back to the original question, what did we do instead of grade skip? Look for non-traditional school options (charters, etc), take advantage of fun/intellectually stimulating activities outside of school (and at home), give our ds anything and everything he wanted to read (he was reading college level books in early elementary), talk to him, listen to all his cool out-there ideas, visit musuems, music lessons, art, volunteer, go on short (and long) trips, and have a lot of fun as a family

Hope that helps a little bit

polarbear

I agree with this, and it plays into why we're not really considering a skip for DS right now.

Yes-- and I think that we are probably a cautionary tale there.

I can't even BEGIN to imagine the misery if my DD had two more years of high school left. Honestly, this last one is torturous, and so was last year (I mean, if you take out the three weeks in Europe, the multiple extracurriculars, the 8-25 hr a week spent on community service, etc...)

So yes- there is a danger in terms of advocacy in that the SCHOOL may treat you as though they're "done" helping you-- when in the case of a PG student, the entire arc is different and you'll need additional adjustments as you go either way.

I seriously do not know. I really don't. I think no-- based upon the fact that her underachievement has historically reflected profound anxiety and depressive symptoms. She doesn't underachieve to be happier-- but as an expression of distress.

I can't really imagine having put my 10-11yo into college classes...

on the other hand, I may regret that given the other things that she's learned instead.

If it were a simple matter of being able to "just" skip a grade and-- hey, presto!-- everything suddenly fits forever, then yeah, maybe.

But I can definitely see the point where you realize that your child's trajectory is carrying them to a point where if you DON'T "clip their wings" they'll be gaining about 3-6 mo on chronological peers for every year that passes, well--

that might not look so daunting at 6yo, when it's only a year and a half to two years ahead of them... but by 12yo, that is a different matter entirely, because a kid like that is now 4-7 YEARS ahead of them if they've been developing according to their own needs as a student. Most schools simply don't accommodate that well to begin with, and it's such an unusual developmental trajectory that it's hard to know what the "right" placement is when none of the options is a real "fit" entirely.

I don't think anyone would argue that a PG 12yo "fits" beautifully... anywhere. Not in middle school, not in college, and nowhere in between, either. It is all least-worst at that point.

Granted, my DD is only 8, but we've already had this conversation a few times, as her existential angst progressed to separation from her parents due to college and career.

Yes, she has been skipped a grade, but we don't consider this to be any kind of loss of childhood, primarily because we don't consider graduation from high school to be a necessary time of separation. DD is encouraged to live at home while she attends college for a number of reasons... comfort, familiarity, family support, and yes, reduced debt. She likes the idea very much... for now.

Even completing college is not necessarily seen as a time when she needs to leave the nest. Staying at home would provide further advantages... give her time to find the right opportunity, rather than grabbing the first one, give her an opportunity to pay down college debt and/or save towards a house, etc.

She'll leave whenever she decides she's ready, naturally, and possibly sooner than later, but being grade-skipped need not be a part of the process.

I agree.

Have you had an IQ test done?

I am struggling with the same issues with my first grader. We had grade accelerated his older sister when she was in kindergarten. So she is now 7 (almost 8) and in third grade. Since she has an Oct. birthday she is close to the Sept. 1 cut-off and that made it more palatable. How close is your DD to the cut-off?
I will say that DD has ADHD and even with that, being in the next highest grade is still too easy for her. She is scoring around the 98th-99th percentile on achievement tests even after being grade accelerated.

There was a possibly to SUBJECT accelerate her, basically keep her in the correct grade and have her go down the hall to the next highest grade level for math and/or reading, but the principal said that it would be complicated and we might as well just move her up a grade for everything. My DS currently in 1st grade is advanced for both math and reading, but according to his IQ and his non-verbal score being so much higher, I think it is math he will shine in over the long term. So I am asking about subject accelerating him just for math.

The teacher said she can give him higher level math in the first grade classroom but she has been saying that 6 weeks now and nothing is happening.

Hope this helps (it probably doesn't).

If gifted ones are placed with age-peers and are not studying and choosing friends who are also not studying (not because they don't need to but they don't want to), in middle and high school, that could lead to real problems.

I think that the first step you could do regardless of your decision to skip is to afterschool your child - no matter what. If you find the time or resources lacking, please consider a tutor or tutoring center that can meet the needs of your child in math and LA.
As for grade skipping, if I were you, I would save that skip for middle school and ask for subject acceleration and differentiation right now.

I have put my gifted 6 year old in a school that offers subject acceleration - but the accelerated math is still too easy for him (even when it is 2 years ahead of his age/grade) though the accelerated LA is at his level because they use real literature and literary analysis and there is no restriction for book choices. We consider that the math at school is "review" type math.
But the school offers other subjects which keep him happy all day long - like geography, history, computer programming, music etc where he does not get bored because he is learning things new to him.
So, we afterschool in math to meet him at his level and he reads higher grade level fiction and non-fiction at reading time in school where they let him bring in his own reading material.

How to make a "normal" grade work?

We have chosen not to skip, although have thought about it. First reason -- it wouldn't have helped academically. For a child reading at 5th and doing math at 3rd, what will 2nd grade offer? We had a massive mismatch and could see no benefit. With multiple year subject acceleration, we found the level was wrong again within 2-3 months, so that wasn't a long-term fix for us.

What we have done -- multiple years subject acceleration, tried a school program for PG kids, homeschooled for a few years, tried an HG magnet program, summer program supplements, etc. We've pursued lots of non-academic interests in sports, computer science (not usually taught til high school but available at any age for interested kids), math outside school, music, music composition, chess, etc.

We are conflicted about much of this. With a child capable of college level work at 10, where does the kid fit? It wasn't in college but it wasn't in elementary either. Sadly, skipping into middle school still would have been woefully inadequate. Some kids in that situation just love the possibility of doing work with professors and don't care much about social fit. I didn't have kids like that as mine love recess and their buddies and playing like kids.

It all depends on the kid and the local resources and your resources. What options are available for elementary/middle/high school/ or early college? Is there a state boarding high school? Does the kid develop interests in things that take a long time -- like hours of music practice daily to offset academic misfit? Does the kid love social time with same age friends or yearn for older friends?

We've also tried to avoid much acceleration to keep work short and free time long. This has ultimately failed with multiple AP courses in middle school which have lots of busy work that takes time, but early on, school work was truly easy and there was lots of free time to dream and self-teach freely.

I agree that there is no hurry. There may be options for meeting the need without changing the grade level. We've had tutors and independent projects and mentors who were college professors, etc. It's a lot of work, but so far, kids are happy.

I think this is also another path for a child who is not crumbling in school, though as pointed out, it can fall down in middle/high school and takes a lot of work from parents. If the child has an intense outside interest and a happy disposition, it's a good start, IMO. Chess is doing a lot to keep my DS busy/mentally occupied.

OP, is she DYS eligible? They might be able to help you at school.

Well...you didn't mention anything about how your daughter feels in your OP. It was almost all focused on how you feel about a grade skip. TBH, based on what you wrote, some of the questions and comments seemed completely reasonable. If you had written some of the information in your subsequent message --- and left out the stuff that was all about you --- the responses you got may have been quite different.

If you ask a question in a public forum, you should expect to get answers that you may not like.

If people here have been writing positively about grade skips, it's probably because skips have worked well for so many of our children. No one is trying to be offensive.


FWIW, my double-skipped child took his teddy bear to school when he was in 6th grade. I wasn't sure what the middle schoolers would think about that. By the next Monday, the classroom was full of teddy bears. In December, they had a Christmas party for their teddy bears.

I thought that was all over (he's in 10th grade now). I was wrong. Teddy went to foreign language class yesterday to give a presentation (everyone brought something from home for this). It was a smashing success for all (including Teddy, who got to go to school).

Yes, there are obviously some differences between DS and kids who are 2-3 years older than him. But he gets along with everyone and is doing fine. Alternatively, our DD has skipped one grade and we probably won't skip her again. This is because she loves her friends and would be unhappy in a different grade.

YMMV.

Thank you. I'm sorry that I am defensive, and that I misunderstood deacongirl's comment. I've just been getting a lot of pressure to skip from a lot of people, and all I was asking for here were suggestions for how to make it work WITHOUT skipping... then got lots of responses about why to skip. And I may get there, but that's not what I'm looking for right now. I'm trying to make that the last resort.

That's freaking adorable and now I want my daughter in your son's school.

Some have had great success with asking open-ended questions such as a daily conversation over dinner where family members talk about their day... asking what was the best thing that happened in school... what was the worst part of the school day.

Originally this was presented as your concern, resulting in several inquiries about your daughter's preferences. Now hearing of your daughter's reticence to be accelerated brings to mind an often repeated saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Has she been tested... test scores and any input/advice from the psych may be helpful components of your advocacy efforts, especially given the history of upheaval you mention.

It was seriously cute. They made a teddy Christmas tree and made little teddy ornaments. The teachers loved it. The kids were happy. The parents thought it was adorable. Etc.

Yea, this forum is a lot like my DS7: Ask a question and you end up with a 10 page dialog with a small chance of the actual question being answered. It happens.

To the topic, having some activity, some area of focus in or outside school where she can learn find her inner 100% effort may be pretty important to later success. Freshman year of college is not the funnest time to realize you have no idea what studying is. Habits of ennui start early and are some stubborn bugs to break free from (still working on 'em, myself, when I get around to it.)

I haven't read all the previous posts, but here's our story, suggesting that it might be ok not to skip in some cases:
In K my son was reading at about a 3rd grade level and math at a similar level (if not higher for some concepts), and they pushed him up to the "highest" reading group with the gifted first graders, and this worked well (though the lexile appropriate books were not things he was interested in - grade school social dramas - though he appreciates them now). They didn't know what to do with him for math, so his teachers just supplemented him with challenging questions - which mostly worked, plus he will ocassionally find a topic he didn't know (measurements mostly) that is "grade level". He was bored a bit, but we decided not to skip him (he's one of the youngest in his class anyway, and socially wasn't very mature and had poor fine motor skills that made it difficult for him to write when in K and 1st, although he's caught up in both now). He eventually made some good friends in 1st and 2nd grade, who he is still good friends with now (5th grade). There have been challenges along the way - he does get bored, especially with standardized test review - but so do the kids who are above average at all. He's now in an advanced math class that is a 5&6th combined curriculum (finishing all the 6th grade topics in 5th grade) which will lead to a 7/8 combined math curriculum in his 6th grade year and algebra 1. He never had any peers in math in K-4, even among the other G&T kids. He's at a new school this year which is the combo of multiple elementary schools, and I think there might be one other kid in his advanced math class who is at his level. They're moving fast enough with new math material that even though it isn't "hard" for him, it's new, and they move quickly enough to keep him interested, but he's noticing that even among this more select group of students that he and one other kid are the only ones who are breezing through it. He's yet to be really challenged with math in terms of the official content, but his teacher is good and has extra stuff for them to do.
I have friends who skipped their kid - who was probably in a similar place academically, but with better fine motor skills, though possibly with more social issues. It's going ok - though I think the social aspect is still a challenge.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is OK to hesitate about skipping a grade. It can be made to work, though it is not easy. Skipping a grade won't solve everything either, especially if your child is more than 2 grade levels ahead, and the potential for boredom is there in the next grade as well. We'll see how it goes, but with the addition of science (with actual experiments) as a stand-alone subject and a focus on writing (that is sort of independent of grade level) and new music & art opportunities, foreign language, this year is going well, even if there are a few subjects that are not well differentiated .

Well! That statement certainly brings back some unpleasant memories.

Study? I have to study? How do I do that?

Our solution to this was to place our son in a non-graded charter school. He's technically a first grader, but his teacher is giving him second grade work for the time being (MAP testing results later this month may change that). His biggest challenge is learning to write in the pre-cursive style and also finishing his timed, 100 equation tests in five minutes. So, he is not entirely bored.

He's been reading at a fourth grade level+ since the beginning of Kinder and last year in a private school was doing third grade math worksheets, so I guess he's on-par with your DD?

The charter appears to be a good fit. He is in a room of 20 kids ranging from first through third grade and has made friends across those ages, especially gravitating to the older kids. All the kids are like a big family and look out for each other (there's only 50 in the whole school) and there's no issue with bullying, teasing, etc. I'm fairly sure the older children have been instructed not to "spill the beans" on Santa, etc., although DS has begun to suspect the tooth fairy.

Most people do.

On the other hand, if everyone else who is familiar with your child is saying this to you--

I'd consider that is a likely set of signals I should probably heed.

As Val notes, it's not that our accelerated children have a rushed or even foreshortened childhood-- so much as that they have a qualitatively DIFFERENT one from 99% of other peers (both agemates and intellectual peers who may be older).

Don't write off options based on your assumptions about what those options would translate into down the road, that's all.

I would talk to the school again and ask why they are opposed to subject acceleration. Is it because it makes the schedule too complicated? I think most kids would probably be fine staying in the grade for their age as long as they get appropriate work in math and reading. For reading, most teachers do leveled groups. Or at the very least, allow the child to read books at their level. Math is more difficult. I understand not wanting to grade accelerate. As I said, I have one kid where we did it and it worked fine, but I don't think it would be a great idea for the younger one. He is in first grade and is ready to learn long division and just learned multiplication like 96X42. It would be difficult to find another child like that in his class even if the teacher TRIED to do some kind of leveled group. She talked to me about "giving him second or third grade level math" and I was thinking is she just going to GIVE it to him, or is she going to teach him the concepts? How in the world is that going to work? I wrote back and said that I don't think it would be a good idea to give him work that he doesn't know yet without being instructed. Second grade would be fine, but I'm sure there are some third grade concepts he doesn't know yet.

Another option I had for her was putting him on the computer. We have a subscription to ixl.com and she could put him on the computer while the rest of the class is learning how to do 2+2. She agreed that would be fine, but hasn't put him on the computer at all yet. Maybe it would work with other teachers, which is why I'm bringing it up.

DS has actually ASKED her to give him harder math and she still hasn't done anything.

It's a difficult situation and it depends a lot on the teacher and how the classroom schedule works. DS has 22 other kids in his class of all different abilities and I don't think the teacher has time to teach him advanced concepts. So even though he is 2e I'm going to ask about having him subject accelerated with accommodations made for his disability. There's a strong chance it will be difficult to coordinate though (with schedules of 2 different grades).

Well said.

I disagree with the idea that one needs to heed advice from many others regarding acceleration. This decision is so personal and so individual. I have been told so many times what *ought* to happen with my child based on scores or abilities or levels or evaluations and none of those involved really know my child or our options or the possible consequences of each decision. The "experts" have quickly been revealed to know very little about my child or our specific circumstances and skipping has mostly been recommended to help make a situation easier for administrators, not for the benefit of my child. It's easier to provide high school math in the middle school than the elementary, but that doesn't mean a kid has to be in middle or high school to receive it.

Mommajay -- you know your child and your situation the best. I agree with indigo's "if it ain't broke" approach. If your DD is happy currently, I wouldn't be inclined to skip because you are worried about a poor fit. If she's unhappy, that's a different situation.

I've heard countless times that PG children need to be radically accelerated or that gifted kids must have altered instruction or risk horrible underachievement or rebellious behavior or stagnation. The biggest benefit of DYS and similar for my family has been learning that families with PG kids approach this in a variety of ways -- and each approach has its share of anecdotal positives and negatives. What works depends on the family and the options and myriad details that only you can know about your family, but it is definitely possible to make this work without skipping. When my child was the age of yours, I asked the same question on a DYS list and got a huge range of responses. It helped me immensely to see the variety of possible ways to make this work. The whole process can be much more flexible than it may seem to someone with a young child. I know kids who thrived with multiple skips or single skips and kids who thrived for a while, but then needed/wanted to undo skips and did. I know of kids who have gone to college and then later gone to high school, kids who have not skipped and then in middle school been ready for college and skipped all of high school and went straight to college, and kids who have finished high school and a college degree simultaneously. There are lots of ways to make this work and most of them are hard, involve heavy parental involvement, and lots of reassessing and re-evaluating. Some families relocate for better opportunities for education in other locations. I'm not saying that it's easy and in other circmstances, skipping many grades would likely have worked great for us. But skipping doesn't have to occur now if you or DD are uncomfortable with it right now. It works for many folks and avoiding it works for many folks and none of us know enough about your circumstances to make sense of what your DD needs.

I've only read the first page, but wanted to add my 2 cents.

I have been in that situation, and found a solution other than skipping, but it probably isn't something you can do. I think your child being happy and challenged is more important than you not wanting her to grow up too soon. Every mother thinks their child is growing up too soon. Reading sixth grade stuff doesn't make a five year old eleven, they're just a five year old reading long complicated sentences or doing long division or whatever.

But look at it this way - given the choice between a short childhood and a happy childhood, which would you choose?

I didn't even learn that lesson in my first degree.

I have mostly skimmed the posts but as far as other strategies, one I have not seen mentioned is simply minimizing time at school.

Our school's absence and tardy policies are complex and we are still understanding them. Beyond the actual policies are the reasons for them, which are policies tied to the school's funding and which are just something an official thought might be a good idea. Either way there are some gems in there. A student present by X time is considered present the entire day, it does not count towards absences. Religious holidays are not counted towards absences. We schedule appointments, well dental visits etc, for smack in the middle of the dullest part of the day. The parent, having other commitments, can only get DS back to school at X time. The school happily accepts a note from the dentist and this does not get put into the category of parent-explained absences, for which there is a cap. DS has weekly OT privately supported by our personal health insurance (and the school is happy with that as they would prefer not to pay to provide it), and that takes over half a day. And we strictly observe the district policy concerning student health, ie that parents should keep home any child displaying symptoms of an infectious illness. Given colds are infectious, as we get into winter I imagine that will gain us more homeschool days than we even want. So far DS has had lots of absences but none the school would take any issue with as far as their policies go. DS is attending an interesting homeschool group class one day a week this way in which he has learned more than in the total amount of time in 1st grade. There will be some absences from it too as I don't want him away from school the same day every week, but he enjoys it when he does get to go.

This fall is not as easy on the parents' careers as I imagined it would be, but I hope it is allowing DS to make it through more easily to a point in which there is more differentiation in place for him.

We try to communicate well with his teacher regarding absences so she is not surprised. I know she has sent make up work home for another student that was ill, but not for DS, and I think that's a tacit approval. I doubt she feels she is allowed to say anything verbally supporting the strategy. But considering the number of meetings we've had with her, and the number of days DS has been absent, I have the feeling it would have come up if it were going to.

Kaibab's statement:

There are lots of ways to make this work and most of them are hard, involve heavy parental involvement, and lots of reassessing and re-evaluating.

Worth calling out. Beautifully stated.

One of the things that is actually almost alarming is the rate at which an HG+ kid can learn new concepts. My own DD sometimes is almost alien in this regard. While neuroplasticity is believed to continue throughout one's lifespan, childhood is the maximal period for it and I cannot help thinking that stretching/enriching/exposing as early as possible can only do good. DW and I have skipped our DD but we also recognize the horrible truth that to keep her challenged more skips may be necessary down the road.

Whether or not to skip a child depends on many factors and the academic quality of the school is one of them - even a 'gifted program' may not actually be at all demanding/engaging to a high LOG kid. Many 'gifted programs' are diluted for political reasons, they are crammed with kids that frankly shouldn't be there and ditto for the staff all in the name of anti-elitism. The school is admitting that what they are offering is not enough for your DD at her current grade. Another factor would be how quickly does she make friends? Does she tend to get along better will kids who tend to be older?

If you are on the fence then you should get your child tested for her good and for your sanity - it is so easy to wobble over "should I/shouldn't I?" In the dark. Childhood is not over rated but nor is being a happy and intellectually engaged adult with the confidence to achieve self-actualisation.

Please don't get offended by some of the earlier threads or even this one - we are all here trying to help one another deal with the trials and tribulations of raising a kid to be happy and fully functional adult. For many of us this board is literally our group therapy.

YMMV

[quote=Polly]I have mostly skimmed the posts but as far as other strategies, one I have not seen mentioned is simply minimizing time at school.

This is EXACTLY what we do, Polly! Our state has a minimum # of hours that a child has to present to be counted as present for the whole day. So, we regularly only attend school for that # of hours. It actually is working quite well. DS goes to specials, hangs out with friends for a few hours and then comes home to learn. I only officially homeschool him in one subject, but I suspect the official number of subjects will increase very soon (like in the next few weeks).

We are in the middle of considering a grade skip as well. But now I am thinking, after having observed some of the upper grades, that a grade skip will NOT be a good idea (at this school). So, we may just increase our time at home and decrease our time at school and see how that goes. (Our long range goal, for now, is to attend a private school in the area that DS can attend in 2-3 years. I have worked there and know that it will be a good fit for DS because they group by ability and not by age for most subjects.)

Hi, I am a bit late to this thread but did want to post our experience.

My son is very self-aware and as such, has the greatest say in his schooling. We moved to CA about a year ago and at the time, he decided he wanted to be with his age peers although he would be bored in school. We did a lot of stuff outside of school and he reads far above his grade level so it worked out okay.

He has since decided that he would prefer to be with his intellectual peers so we are working on whole-grade acceleration. Unfortunately, the school is less than supportive of it though they are putting us through "The Process". Fortunately, my transfer looks like it is going to go through and we are moving to Reno! :-)

So all of that to say: what does your child want to do?