Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Children who 'push'

Anyone else have one of those?

My oldest is four and is just ALWAYS pushing. Everything is a battle. Today, he screamed in my face because I told him he couldn't come inside without washing his feet. They were coated in mud. we deal with it, move on, and its something else.

The ones that annoy me the most are the things that have been house rules since as soon as he could walk. After you finish eating, you have to put you plate up at the sink. He has had to do that since he was about a year old. So today, he didn't and had a meltdown when I asked him to do it.

I admit I am writing this worn out and exhasted from it, but please tell me I'm not the only one who has to deal with this?!?!? My friends don't seem to have this problem. Sure, they have to say no several times, but not every single time the issue comes up for what feels like the rest of their lives!

My son is very headstrong too. Have you checked out the Nurtured Heart approach? It is working for us.

Four is really hard. It gets better, I promise.

Wow, Geomamma, that sounds tough! I hope you get some down time to recharge and just be in a quiet space. I find after one of "those" days I need to be out of the house and walking!

We don't have it everyday about everything with DS about to turn 5, instead we get it in clusters usually around his half or full birthday or around times of change. And then it's similar in terms of testing things that are house rules or are obviously going to be met with a negative reaction. What's been important for us is to keep reinforcing what will not be tolerated while trying to point out when he does the right thing. But I have to say my ability to handle often has a lot more to do with me than him. Especially because they all have that way of knowing what gets you the most. So besides offering sympathy and a recommendation for restoring your own sanity, when you say ALWAYS pushing do you mean that literally or can you pinpoint some patterns, hungry, bored, changing from one activity to another? If it literally is ALWAYS then perhaps the nurtured heart book that lots here recommend might help.

Hang in there!

DeHe

Had to laugh in sympathy here. I once had a conversation with one of my kids that went like this:

"We know you aren't stupid - how can someone as smart as you obviously are not figure out that you are supposed to do 'X' when you have been told literally at least a thousand times to do it? Why do we have to tell you two or three times every single day?"

"What I can't figure out is how parents who are as smart as you guys are can't figure out that if you've told me a thousand times to do something, and I'm still not doing it, I'm obviously not going to..."

(This was the same child who, at the age of 2, when I, in utter frustration said aloud, but under my breath, "What part of "No!" don't you understand?", looked up at me and calmly answered "The part that applies to me.")

Heaps of empathy from this corner. I was smiling and nodding whilst reading. My dd is eight and we have the shouting and stubbornness interspersed with heaps of tears due to anxiety and frustration.

If she's stimulated and learning then she's happy, if not, god help us all! We're seeing a gifted specialist (only just started) if you want you can inbox me and I'll let you know if we find any effective ways of disciplining! All I know is that softly, softly seems to work better than shouting - as much as not shouting is so very difficult sometimes!

Hang in there. I know it's hard...

K x

Oh my, welcome to my world. DD is and has always been the queen of pushers! She has these episodes sevral times a day. It drives us nuts. Tonight she was pushing for more reading time even though we got home late from A MLK community celebration, she started yelling at me and trying to use my "make good choices" that I use on her, on me LOL.

I agree with katebee- when DD is learning and stimulated she is good, but heaven help us if she isn't, but it doesn't just happen then, she is as my mom says "more stubborn that you were and I never thought that was possible." LOL. So I guess the apple didn't fall far from the tree here.

We are really working on that we wont tolerate it here, but she will push right back harder with us. We had a battle at 4 am the other night because she wouldn't give it up and just pushed and pushed, but we are trying to not give in and be consistent...but man it is hard when she will push anyway, for hours.

You are not alone!

Thank you everyone! He's in bed now, and I feel a lot better

Seriously, it probably isn't all the time but it sure feels like it. Some days are definitely worse than others, and it is worse when he isn't being stimulated enough. I just can't keep him stimulated enough! There is only one of me!

Tomorrow we have his first science club meeting, so it will hopefully be a better day.

I will look more into the nurtured heart approach, I'm certainly willing to try. There were a few threads that mentioned it, so I'll look them up.

Once again, thank you for making me feel "in good company"

Wow, aculady, that sounds just like my dd5. GeoMamma, I am grateful you asked this question, it certainly makes all of us feel better that we are not alone. I have a "pusher" as well. I'd like to think she got a little better by 5? Or we just learned to let it go and choose our battles, maybe? Taking "no" for an answer is hard for these kids, and we have debates over the underlying parental authority--as in "it's my body and I should be deciding if I should put my pajama on," and other equally interesting conversations. My dd understood early that being a kid means you are "some kind of inferior being," as she says, because other people tell you what to do all the time. And she argues that it's the society's fault that kids cannot be independent, since kids did not make the law about compulsory schooling and they can't work and drive, LOL. Thus, the world is totally unfair to kids and they should certainly get to vote...Her dad's a litigator and we're both pg, but I tell 'ya this kid could out-argue the Supreme Court. And she's not ill-intended or defiant without reason--actually most of the time she's quite funny--and I can tell it's part of her asychronicities. It cannot be easy to think/understand things at the level these kids are without having the emotional maturity to deal with that understanding and LET STUFF GO for a change.

You are not alone. Both of my girls are very head strong and demanding! I mentioned that the stress of dealing with them lately has caused me to lose weight!

I'm trying to get my hands on:

Living With Intensity: Understanding the Sensitivity, Excitability, and the Emotional Development of Gifted Children, Adolescents, and Adults by Susan Daniels

My library doesn't have it.

HUGS TO YOU!!!

Geo,

I have one of the nurtured heart books. PM me if you want it, I'll mail it to you.

You sound like you have DS8's little brother. Push, scream, tantrum thrower extrordinaire. For the last few months, I have taken a different road with him. I determined that trying to address all of his behaviors wasn't working, so I picked one. For the last couple of months, we've focused on his tone of voice. He needs to be respectful and use manners at ALL TIMES!

In the beginning it felt like I was pounding my head against a post. Slowly, he's come around. If his tone isn't what i'm looking for, I ask him to check it and ignore whatever the request was. When he uses the appropriate tone, I give his request my undivided attention. It doesn't mean he always gets what he wants, but it gets him a lot farther than the old way which was a one way ticket to his room!

It always feels great knowing that you're never alone in all of this! Hello and welcome to my life. Aculady, your child's comments are so similar to my sons! Some days I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Daily, my ds10 is constantly debating over everything we and teachers ask of him. It can be exhausting, frustrating, and at times quite humorous. The different perspective that kid can come up with is well, ... ??? ... hahaha ...ummmmm ... His personality is my daily job. I agree with the nutured heart approach. It helps you stay sane Lol...Hugs your way. I have empahty!

Hi MamaJA,

Not from the library, but a really good UK site with free international delivery for the book you were after:

http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780910707893/Living-with-Intensity

Hope you get your hands on it soon - one way or the other!

All best,
K x

Please help. �Not to sound desperate. �
I wanted to post on this last night but I got busy. �I'm so eager to say what's bothering me I can't even read all the other posts first. Usually I read the whole thread first. �But this subject is why I first posted on gifted forums to start with, trying to get a grip.
Mine pre-schooler wants to be alpha too. �What else were we expecting when, as the hubby puts it I'm stubborn and my husband's persistent? �Two alphas and a mini me alpha. �It's really showing now with the new baby here. �Started with the nurtured heart approach. �It's a long term goal because it's really self control big enough that it controls the outcome. �Been listening to the dog whisperer about pack mentality and how to calmly claim alpha.�

Besides that what's bothering me is the boy's stubbornness can combine with the right choices and really cause problems IIRC. �I've mentioned if I thought my kid wasn't so gifted I would worry more about teaching him right from wrong. �Maybe I'll dig up the thread later to show how really worried I am. �Last year I mentioned that other two year olds are destructive, mine was a picture straightner. �(eta, he's still got some terrible toddler behavior now and then so he's got normal behavior, he's just got these other tendencies in addition to, and kind of disproportionate). When he was one and could barely talk he would make sure I had my keys, cellphone, and purse before I walked out of the door. �We call him Mr. Observation, that's been his most precocious trait. �IIrc from my childhood adults encourage this "right choices". �And this kid will rarely get in trouble, but any time they do it's suddenly such a big deal. � Then you got a kid who "doesn't listen" and a bunch of adults who doesn't know what to do about it. �
Example. �I recently put 2 boxes of cereal on the table. �I left the cabinet open (planning to pour the bowls and put them back). �The boy tried to close my cabinets. I told him "don't close them, go sit down at the table". �No, the cabinets have to be closed. �The hubby, "Wyatt, listen to your mother.". Starting to cry, "no. The cabinets have to be closed". A good mother would have realized my son was agonizing over his perplexity and explained that I wanted the cabinet open because I was going to put the boxes back. �An authoritative father would expect that his child could handle a simple request like, "go eat cereal, it's not your job to worry" without crying. �I know I tell him stuff, explain stuff most people don't tell three year olds. �And the hubby does too. �Some people think saying, "you'll find out when you're older" makes a better childhood. �The hubby says and I agree, if the boy's old enough to ask a quiestion he's old enough to hear the answer. �(At worst he'll learn not to ask quiestions he doesn't want to hear the answer to). But he has to accept sometimes the 3 year old is not in charge of everything. �"It's not yours, don't touch it" is one of my three house rules. �(it's not yours, don't touch it) (use a normal voice) (don't break everything). �It kind of applies. �So what do I do with this? �It created bad memories of my childhood, teaching me you really can't break this kind of stubbornness. �
http://life.familyeducation.com/aspergers/behavior/40203.html
I've never heard of anyone in my family having autism or aspbergers so I'm not saying that. �But this description is a good description of a similar gifted trait. �Problem is their proposed solution is to always give reasons, well, that will exhasperbate the over-reaction when it happens now and then IRL, and sometimes when I'm not there too.
Any advice besides "don't worry" "quit parenting from a place of fear" or "don't borrow trouble"? �Or am I wrong and I need to have a little faith and quit seeking understanding? �Uh, yeah. �That's not going to happen. �The only handle I have on my own inner logic boy is profound patience and an idea of "simmering on the back burner" being an option. �

I totally agree - with the result and how hard it is to do it!!!

DeHe

La Texican, I hear your plea! When my first son (now 12) was a preschooler, I remember him straightening rugs at friend's houses, always having to walk on one side of the sidewalk, orgainizing products on store shelves, having me say the same exact thing the same exact way before naptime etc...Now I can happily say that he is well over this! It took much patience and a "pick your battles" type mentality on my part, but he eventually just mellowed out haha I think around age 8 or so. He is still a perfectionist at heart though! I remember feeling conflicted between the "he needs to listen to the rules" or to just allow him to endulge in whatever he needed to do to feel "okay" (like shutting the cupboard door or whatever)...sigh, the memories! Hug your way

Thanks Cecilia, the boy picks up trash on the playground and fixes the shelves at the store. Which is fine. I just thought people here could understand my fear from my own childhood when one adult calls another over a confrontation and so many adults involved become more concerned with your unwillingness to drop it than they are concerned with the right answer. Scary. Guess you can't avoid the pain. I think this is a unique pg discipline problem and all the answers I get is that giftedness applies only to educational needs and "best practices" parenting applies the same to all kid's. Except 2 e kids. But I don't know if it's 2e. Stubborness plus gifted equals what? Oe, over-reacting? Haha, how many parents can we tell "I'm less worried about my kid not knowing thing to do, I'm worried about him taking a good thing too far.".

Gone through this once, working on the second time. Ds7 started this around four years old. It didn't end until it reached the point that I took every single toy out of his room. Then I sat down and explained why it was important to be respectful of other people. I told him he could ask questions, but they had to be polite and respectful or I wouldn't discuss it with him. Then I made him earn back every single toy one at a time. He got the opportunity to earn one toy at the end of a day IF he had been good, and IF he did a chore of my choosing. We had a massive pile of toys cluttering up my bedroom for MONTHS before he finally got them back. He still gets a bit of an attitude once in a while, but he has learned to control it better than he did. Of course, now we're starting the same process with my 4 year old. Sigh....I'd like to say I feel more prepared this time, but every time I say that I'm wrong.
Don't worry, you're not alone. And it does get better....eventually....although I don't think it will ever go away completely.

Not sure about the LOG but I do think it is definately tied in with giftedness. Intensity, creativity and persistence combine to create it, I think.

Shari, thank you! I'm in Australia, so postage may be a bit more than you were thinking though.

Thank you too, to the person - I can't find it atm - who spoke about the level of challenge being a problem. I can't believe I didn't think of that. This has absolutely been an issue lately. I was trying to have a quiet few days because we have a few really busy days coming up. HA! Should have know that wouldn't work. That is a whole other tangent though!

La Texican, it is hard! I hope there are some ideas on this thread for you!

We have one of these too! I was hoping with age, we would outgrow it, but that doesn't seem to be the case! We do seem to have in come in spurts with certain ages. It has just reared it's ugly face again recently and I forgot how trying it can be! I find that out of everything I tried, remaining calm myself is the ONLY thing that brings DC to be able to be rational again!

Weird that I pick this thread first today. My eyes are swollen this morning due to uncontrollable tears regrading DS7's behavior lately. The meltdowns got less and less, but in the last month or so, they are back. Last night, I asked him to pick up his shoes and get ready to head upstairs for bed. This is a normal routine. The minute I said "now, please", after him procrastinating for about a minute, he exploded into tears. Sometimes I get the "no one loves me" speech. Sometimes I can talk sense into him.

I reached out to his school counselor today, as his school offers group counseling for students on how to handle their emotions, for him, it's anger. He is my emotional one, emotional sensitivity being his "overexcitability". I suppose you can say he takes after me... me and my puffy eyes.

You are not alone. It's very draining. And for me, personally, I really hope reaching out for help at his school will help us all. What's ironic is he is the good kid in class (most of the time)...

Funny you say that JJSMom..... if I told anyone at school about how DD acts at home, they'd look at me like I had 3 heads and clearly must be referring to a different child! She is an ANGEL at school. I often ask her why she is able to control it at school but not at home. Her response was that school was important to her and she didn't want it going on her permanent record! She proceded to tell me that she really wants to go to a really good school someday because she wants to be an Dr. so she has to be good at school (she's 9 for cryin' out loud! She has a long time to worry about that!)

If it's any consolation, we tried a counselor at one point years ago and honestly, I was already doing everything they suggested and it was not a help in the least. I've come to the realization that DC is the way she is and we have to work with her!

DS7 is the same way... he's worried about all the decisions he will make in 11+ years! I'm really looking at the counselor because they have group sessions for kids to discuss ways to handle peer pressures, anger, self control, self esteem, etc... and not as what we can do better as parents. That part is a work in progress. Any time my button gets pushed, I have to remember to close my eyes and breathe first.

I know this may sound silly, but I am a Gemini, and DS7 is a Sagitarius (who naturally have issues seeing eye to eye). I swear he was born to push that button of mine.

HAHAHAHA! I hear you! I keep trying to remind myself to take deep breathes and that seems to calm her down tremendously. It's not every day, and it was really good for a while, but I wonder if DD is having some issues lately because she has very strong feeling about injustices in the world and what people do (even silly things that kids do at school) and then she thinks and thinks (that's the REAL problem.... she thinks to much and can't shut off her mind at night! That tends to be when most of our battles happen!) I agree, I am a bullheaded parent myself and it's hard for me to back down when being pressed by a newly turned 9 year old!` LOL! She pushes my buttons like you wouldn't believe. On a lighter note, did you see the claim about the new zodiac signs? I wasn't happy . Then they came out in a separate article (on the news, mind you... as if there is nothing better going on in the world) and said don't panic, that was for if you don't follow the tropical zodiac, which most people do!` Not that I read my horoscopes, but I do think I fit the profile for a Cap!

I'm so glad you're bringing up these issues because we're facing very similar ones with DS6. My husband and I are seriously looking into the idea of counseling for him just so he can have someone to talk to about his sensitivities. We're starting to get very worried, esp. about his self-loathing when he gets in minor trouble.

Last week, he got in trouble for a minor issue. It was in one of his workshops, and he was trying to go hang out w/ an older friend instead of sitting down to get some work done between class. When I wouldn't let him leave, he threw a typical 6 year old fit (crabby face, a little slamming of things, arms defiantly crossed, etc.) I made him take a brief time out around a hidden corner of the room until he calmed down (parents and teachers there, but no peers), and he lost electronics privileges (first for the day, then for the next day too.) I thought that was it, but he talked in the car about being so mad that he wanted to hurt himself. He kept talking that way at home, and later I found a journal entry asking God to please kill him now because he's such a bad kid. (He's actually VERY sweet and much better behaved than most his age.)

After we talked, he bounced back to his normal happy self, but he did say he feels this way a lot when he gets in trouble. I don't think we're overly strict parents (we usually just use timeouts, don't hit or berate), and now I'm very worried.

I read that this type of behavior is not uncommon for a PG child (and yes, he's a perfectionist), but 6 seems so young to be thinking about counseling. I just want to find him coping skills that work before he gets older.

Gosh, I didn't log in meaning to start rambling about our issue, but since I've already started typing, if anyone has any words of advice, please feel free to share with me.

I'm making a rambling vent type post again on my note app. I still have to read it later to decide if it's relevant enough to the topic to post. The vent is about ND three year old with a new sister problems. I think we get the best of both worlds thanks to asynchronousity, gt behavior problems and a little ND issues too, ain't it beautiful.
Gratefulmom, that reminds me. You know how little kid's just say what they're thinking out loud sometimes? He's 3. The other day he was sitting on the beach chair and made the sentence, "why do I keep doing bad things?". It was like he made a thought outloud. The tone was very much like a question looking for an answer. He wasn't asking me and he didnt just get in trouble. It was just a random out loud thought. I don't even call him bad. We're always more specific than "bad". I'm sure he knows the word, he watches tv.
I told a friend and she laughed at him saying, it because he was such a good 2 year old he thought he had escaped being bad. But, nope. Every kid has to do it.

Gm, I'm hoping to combine CBT and the nurtured heart approach. Specifically what I like about them the nurtured heart teaches the parent how to show the child "it's ok to misbehave. At the same time, I don't condone it. It's normal, and it's natural, and it's ok. Let me be clear. I don't condone it."
I think that's a powerful message to address this situation. I'm glad and relieved to read here that it really is a real problem and I'm not making it up out of thin air.
From what I've read about the CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) it's mostly a remedy for adults but I've seen online where it's used to create the structural framework for disciplined children in a logical family. Somehow it teaches the students (family members) how to Self Evaluate their own choices, actions, and reactions everytime to get the results they chose. Not that you won't have problems but with self control you can control what you can control. KWIM? I think there is an issue of trust and control wether it's giftedness or perfectionism the biggest problem comes when the rest of the world doesn't follow the rules, right? I'm going to try the home-based version from a self-help book.

Gratefulmom...DD says the same things to God. She thinks she's such a "horrible child" and that what she did was so bad she just gets beside herself and doesn't know what else to say that would be drastic enough that she often says something to that effect as well. I know she hears things on TV in a "comical way" but she has said it. The worst part is, she said it the first time and it got such a reaction from DH and I that she now has said it 3 times recently (partly I think to get a rise out of us, but partly because she feels so terrible and guilty after her meltdowns.) You are not alone!

Oh, and perfectionism here is ENORMOUS for her so that doesn't help her feeling of self-worth after an angry outburst.

I don't have any answers, but DS7 also has this phenomenon of getting very, very upset about something that really isn't worth it. These days he doesn't usually show it in bad behaviour but I think in a way that makes it worse! He says, "I don't want to exist any more". I remember only too well what it's like to be a child and in this state; these words are not exaggeration, they are really how he feels at the time. (Sometimes! He *also* uses the same words for effect sometimes, although the difference was pretty obvious and I hope I've succeeded in letting him understand why that's a really bad idea.)

All I've found so far that seems not obviously wrong is:

- acknowledge the feeling, but reword to something a bit more directly descriptive, getting rid of the proposed solution (not existing), e.g. "You're really really really upset about that, aren't you?"

- but at the same time be calm and practical about whatever the actual problem is

- later, talk about how these really deep feelings are real, but temporary. I pointed out explicitly that most other people don't get these really strong feelings about small things, and that that can make it hard for adults to react to; and I talked about how people were always telling me not to overreact when I was a child. This did seem to help (especially since I'd just made the mistake of doing a bit of that, so it made sense of it to talk about how helpless you can feel when someone else is so upset and you don't understand why or what you can do about it).

TBH I still have this tendency as an adult; the things that help me are knowing that it passes, knowing that when calm I'm good at problem solving, and having people around who love me unconditionally.

Grateful, this sounds so distressing. I was struck by your post and wanted to encourage you to seek some help, only because your DS's brain is still young so this would be a good time for early intervention. The tracks are being laid and could be rerouted to more positive thinking. Self harm and ideation of self harm should always be investigated. I'm not sure what the intervention would be (maybe cognitive behavioral therapy, and/or mindfulness training?), but the outcome could be that your DS thinks less in black and white, as in "if I did something wrong, then I am a bad person." For some, it's hard to accept the thinking, "I can do something wrong - even intentionally - and still be loveable, good, etc."

Kids can definitely come into the world preloaded with a nasty inner critic.

All the best to you.

This came up on a different google search
Here's the link that goes with it
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10062.aspx

I'd like to add that a therapist sounds like a lovely idea. Supposedly modern therapists are super positive. Like, originally professional therapists made the world a less unhappy place. Modern therapists make the world a happier place.
I stumbled across CBT google-fishing for a discipline plan the hubby and I could both believe in. I liked something I saw about CBT, but I looked in the yellow pages for a family CBT therapist and the only thing locally available is to rehabilitate abused welfare children. If even testing gifted kid's takes someone more specialized, I'm sure someone pre-emptively coping with gifted existential issues and developing a family structural discipline that works effectively and fairly for a pretty gifted kid might be outside the scope of the local clinic's scope or purpose.
I've exchanged numbers and requested info after I found out that someone I know works there, is writing a book collaboratively about CBT practice. So now I have access to info and can tailor something out of it, maybe learn something I can use for my family.

This was in that article I just linked to. I wanted to say something like this earlier in this thread, but not so elogently. I was going to say it's like my kid looks like he's having fun pretending to be a kid, but not even he believes it. But I thought that was too weird to say. The point was-maybe that's why there's the stubborn defiance that really isnt "bad" but still isn't ok because it causes problems IRL.
This is part of the root of the stubborn perfectionist gifted problem, I think.

"Professionals can document and advocate that parents are not being pushy; but are probably concerned with getting obstacles out of the way so that their child can run at his own speed. Parents also need support paving the way for their pushy child.
Establishing a professionally guided, ongoing support group for parents of the exceptionally gifted is one of the most effective and comprehensive means to encourage their children and facilitate their development. These groups can easily accommodate parents with children from preschool into adolescence. In this format, parents of older children may receive confirmation and serve as resources to parents of younger children."

Same article. Lol. Is that describing this forum?

Haha - yes I read it... I would be a Taurus, I think, if I followed that way. I suppose that would explain my stubborness, especially with DS!

This really works for DS7 too! He HATES it if he thinks for one second I am not paying attention to his feelings or what he's saying.

Interestingly enough, my mother was the one to tell me to do this with him, since she had to do it with me too.

Good morning,

Thank you so much, SeaBlue and everyone else, for sharing your experiences and for encouraging us to go ahead and look at counseling. In many ways it's reassuring to see that other HG/PG children this age are feeling the same ways. I'm also so glad to have the encouragement to go forward w/ outside help, though....As a 6 year old, he has absolutely nothing in his life that should normally be bringing him such self-loathing. I cringe to think about the teenage years, though, when meaner peers and social pressures, girlfriend angst, and job pressures come into his life.

Texan, thank you too for posting up the DI article. As a YS family ourselves, I should've looked there! I forget how many great resources are on that main website!!

Well done your mother! I learned to do it because of how strongly I remembered hating it when people told me the whole time to stop overreacting and taking everything so personally :-/

GGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having another day of this right now. With both of them actually.

If anyone needs me I'll be in the dark corner of the bedroom. Slowly going insane. mutter mutter mutter....

Hi Geomamma,
I hope you have a chance to take some time for yourself. My dd5 had a period of about 2 months at 4 where frankly, I didn't like her. I really stuggled, as did my husband. I can't offer any advice - we seemed to wheel through a range of ways to deal with it and then eventually found it just ended. But boy, it was rough while it happened. We're at a similar, but at the same time, very different point at the moment - it seems to happen when she has brain spurts (as in have a big development in her level of understanding) - she becomes a ball of frustration and obnoxiousness until we have both worked out her new brain.

I wish I could offer more advice - all I can really say is look after yourself. I found there is nothing better I can do for dd than to be as patient as I can be and I can only do that my being extra selfish in taking 'me' time. Much easier said than done, I know (lol, I feel like the previous comment makes it sound like I was living it up - but the reality it just meant going for a walk on my OWN!!)

I am big on consequences. I will follow through and cancel a sleepover at the last minute.

DD needs to know when not to cross the line otherwise she is going to lose a lot of jobs when she grows up and have very few friends.

Ren

Yes, for all the "wrong" that she feels she did, she did a LOT right. And for that I am very grateful. I have a great mentor!

I think this is the hardest part with these kids. The struggles we go through as parents with our own feelings towards them. Obviously we all love our kids a lot, but when they are so intense it breaks us down, we start to resent them and/or not like them.

It's one of the things that DH and I do well as co-parents - allow each other to have our own down time. It's a MUST for any parent, but especially those with intensely GT children! I agree that you MUST take time for yourselves!

YES!!! Very very true. In my situation, I am more of an introvert and DS is definately an extrovert and that combination is exhausting! Time out is so important.

I actually have had a bit of a break last night an this morning. It has been bliss!

Thank you all sooo much!

I'm a bold stubborn Aries and both my kid's are libra's, hopefully astrology's true because then they will have a little more temperance than I had. �I hope so. �I'm trying to get my hands on some CBT literature as a back-up plan. �What I've seen about it browsing online is that it supposedly puts you in charge of your ownself, which �if I can teach my kid's that responsibity I'll be happy that they know how to stay out of trouble. �
Watching Cesar Milan today and he said the same thing I have been reading in this thread. "Work on one behavior at a time."�
More examples- last night walking out of the store he kept telling (ordering) me to "stay" while his dad and sister walked to the car. �He tried to walk me back into the store. �I inched him to the car slowly without him crying. �I've been known to drag him there on my shoulder before, but we had extra time last night. �I know, he wants to spend more time with me, he's got a new sister and his dad keeps leaving for a week. �I'm glad I saw the nurtured heart before we started this. �He does stuff to get in trouble all the time when I'm nursing the baby to make me stop. �Everybody says it's for attention, that's classic wisdom. �But I wouldn't have really understood without the description that a parent's energy is like food and water to a kid. �Pushing buttons? �The boy started jumping on the bed around me while I was trying to nurse the baby. �There's no doubt he knew how wrong that was and he did it intentionally. �That's normal kid behavior. �Nothing I can do but wait it out. �Inhale. �Exhale. �It's making me very angry. �The baby is a picky nurser, gotta nurse just right or she won't nurse. �Wyatt keeps trying to make me talk, espy doesnt like me to talk. Inhale, 2,3,4. �Exhale, 3,4.. I can only guess it makes an awkward vibration. �I want to be on my babymoon, but I have a 3 yr 0ld. �
I really don't have it in me to do the thirty second time outs right now. �But it looks like I have to. �Actually the extra time teaching him better manners or other discipline would also be giving him extra attention and high quality energy.
I know what's happening. �In my mind I know what I'm in the middle of. �That means this is probably one of the easier problems in my parenting future.

There, I said it. It was killing me to want to say something and not say it. Even though I know it's age appropriate and ND behavior. Phew.

I hope it does help. Sometime just getting it all out there can really help, even if it doesn't change anything. That was why i started this thread. I just needed to let it out!

It is so hard! Sometime I have to remind myself that I do have the right to rest! It isn't me being whimiscal, it is a basic human need and it is ok!


Something that helped a little when my second was a newborn was remembering that he had his brother's attention. His brother had never had that. He also had more of his father's attention. It was of necessity but it was still beneficial.

I also learned to make the most of the tiny slivers of time that came along. Every little sliver I had where I just had one. Savor it, and I truly believe they somehow know that. Hang in there, it is a hard time, but it does get better.

(Please email to me in say four months time, when my next baby arrives, lol!)

La Texican,

Any chance you can make the time right before and right after nursing the baby special attention times for your 3 yr. old?

Can you enlist him to be your special helper, getting you a blanket or pillow, bringing you a drink, doing other little things that give you an opportunity to tell him how important and helpful he is to you beforehand? And can think of something that he can do that will have him quietly getting things ready for the two of you to do something that he really likes when you are finished with nursing? Also, have you considered getting him a baby doll that he can take care of while you take care of the real one? Then instead of "I have to ignore you while I take care of someone more important.", which may be how he is feeling now, the situation can be "WE need to take care of our babies now, together. Remember, our babies like it to be quiet or they can't eat..." These are just some thoughts. I hope they are helpful.

Lol, yeah sometimes, once in a while I get to drive to the post office and check the mail and go to the corner store and check the mail All By Myself. *cartwheel smilyicon*.
Thanks Geomamma, I guess I did need to vent and get reassurance mostly. He keeps trying to teach her stuff. Today I intercepted him from putting a sharpened pencil in her hand with a piece of paper so she could draw. Wow, juggling three are ya? Everyone keeps telling me 3 kids is much harder than 2. I don't know what they mean but I believe them.
Acculady those are great suggestions. I'm trying to work it out so that he gets the attention, the baby gets the attention, the house gets the attention, kind of in a predictable rotating pace. (see my post in annette's 2.5 yr old post). It might work, if not this stage will still pass. Sigh.
And the doll, I'd love to have a doll. He had an old doll of mine. It started ripping too much from age. I got rid of it to get a new one. Now the hubby doesn't want his boy to have a doll. He didn't put his foot down. But so far we both mostly care about each other's parenting wishes since being parents is kind of like a wish granted to both of us. Aww, the topic here is not the hubby's testy traits, but there it is. The boy said something about his doll recently. What doll, I asked. "The one at the HEB store", he said, giving me a loaded look. I told the hubby. He said, "tell him girls get dolls boys get Teddy bears", and ask what he wants a doll for. He said, "for you to nurse it". We'll see, but I think, now, that it's ok for me to nurse the baby as long as I nurse the Teddy bear at the same time. Hey, talking really did help. Thanks. I'll tell you how it goes.

Eta: I changed the end of my post because the hubby called when I was making the post and I think me and the boy have worked something out. Thanks acculady. Great timing.

I'm glad to hear it La Texican, hope it works out!