Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Teacher doesn't even look at work

DS6 has started first grade, and his experience is atrocious. I'm gonna tell the story, and hope for some advice...read on.

DS6 is clearly gifted - reading, math, science, (everything but sitting still and being a sheep). He will be tested in March.

Anyways, DS6 was going to school everyday and telling us things were fine for the first two months of school (his teacher mentioned a few times that he wasn't always on task). At the PT conf in Nov., his teachers told us he was immature and never did his work and complained when they tried to get him to work. Much more disturbing, teachers (when describing how little work DS was doing) revealed that they hadn't checked to see his work since assigned 6 weeks prior! Teacher won't let DS work on harder material because he isn't "doing first grade work."

Turns out, DS (and his classmates, somehow) meets with teachers once a week or so for a lesson or something (can't seem to get them to explain), and sometimes the kids are given assignments of things they are now supposed to self-direct. He is in first grade, and expected to do several items with no supervision or accountability.

So (beginning in Nov), I tried to find out what all he was expected to do and sent emails and notes safety pinned to DS to the teacher explaining that I would reinforce accountability at home if teacher would somehow communicate DS doing or not doing work..to me. No response. Still in Nov., I created a checklist with few work items that DS would tell me, and DS carried it to school with notes and emails again (notes request teacher to check off work completed). Teacher used twice and considered work "completed" if DS "worked on it." - or I guess told teacher he worked on it or he appeared to be working on it - whatever. No response to try to improve the system. Still refusal to increase challenge for DS - suggests I put him in a gifted class - as if I could do that!

In complete frustration (Dec.), I contacted teacher and asked again about accountability - is DS doing his work....he claims to do his work. Teacher said that teacher hadn't looked at DS planner or notebook (another 6 weeks!) and didn't know if he did anything or not. In Jan., I met with teacher and asked again. She claimed to not know if he had done his work - I suggested we look. So, we look at his work and find he has few entries in his notebook. She says, "I guess we need to work on accountability" OMG!!

In response, I contacted a learning specialist at the school to develop a plan to get DS to do his work.

I am thinking that this teacher doesn't care about DS, or his classmates- probably, and I don't know what to do.

If I were DS, I wouldn't do the work either because it is not challenging, repetitive, and NOONE CARES IF HE DOES IT. (Except me, cuz I would prefer for school to not be a negative impact on his education.)

Sorry for the long post. Any advice?

Should I pull him out of school?

Accountability for schoolwork without prompting at age 6?! It sounds like there's something wrong with this teacher (lazy?) and she's putting the blame on your DS. Um, if you don't want to spend your time checking and rechecking to make sure your class is on-task and completing their work (and help with gloves and zippers, etc.) don't teach first grade. As far as what to do, it depends on how comfortable you are going over her head and whether you think she would take out any irritation with you out on your DS. One option could be writing a letter and CC it to the principal and learning specialist. In the letter you could include the checklist and the plan for daily work/home communication. If a few days go by with no communication, you could send a letter stating so. It's about accountability on the teacher's part for a black-and-white plan that she herself agreed on.

Yes, I thought the same thing! That's just completely nutty! There are middle schoolers who have trouble with this, but she's expecting 6yos to just do it?

Even in Montessori, they check to be sure kids are doing the work! And that's the most self-sufficiency-encouraging method I know of. There's self-sufficiency, and there's NEGLECT!

Sheesh!

Jool- Thanks for the reply.
I actually am afraid that she may take it out on my DS.

I think I may try meeting with the principle (face to face) hopefully before she figures out who I am. Then, I might get some answers and shield my DS. Thanks for the idea.

I do have email records of my attempts (of course the safety pin notes are gone). I may print them out. Makes me nervous, a little.

Another thing to consider - could the teacher have memory and organization problems herself? From reading your post again it seems that it's at least a possibility.

Yeah, I will suggest she see a psych. JK

I thought the same thing.

Sadly, I don't know any of the parents of kids in my son's class. I pick him up, walking, everyday, and I don't see other parents. I am not sure how to find them. Any suggestions?

Well, DS is co-taught by another teacher with the same lack accountability practices for DS...from talking with her, this teacher requires slightly more accountability from her *own* students. I have a flashing lightbulb over my head with my DS name on it (it seems), so I am not sure how to approach other teachers. Any advice on how to find / tap into the grapevine would be appreciatedl.

Thanks, kcab. I like these ideas, and I think I could go to a PTA meeting. I went to one, but it was a mess. I can try harder if I have a mission!

We got a valentine list, but it is first names for the kids. I will see if I can get a list of parents. We don't have a room parent. I volunteer outside of the classroom - mostly because DS had trouble focusing with me in his Montessori community last year.


DS doesn't have any friends. He sometimes calls a kid in another class his friend (I dunno when they interact), but when he sees the kid, DS doesn't acknowledge him - even if the other kid says "hey". He is *friends* with an older girl in our neighborhood, but that's it.

...I sound pathetic. Sorry. You have been great. I am motivated to go get the parents in gear.

This sounds nutty! Have the teachers have all but given up? Can you explain to your son that he has to do work at school and since the teachers aren't checking, you will be checking? I'd go a step further and send in work that's appropriate for his level with the understanding that if he doesn't do it at school, he'll work on it when he gets home. A meeting with the principal probably needs to happen soon. Good luck and it sounds like you've got your work cut out for you.

P.S. You don't sound pathetic. I'm just flabbergasted and probably coming across harsher than I meant to.

inky -
Thanks. I have talked with the teacher about appropriate work, but she is convinced that he needs to "prove he can do first grade." ....I think that "doing first grade" means being bored out of your mind and expected to sit still all day and pretend to be fascinated. (LOL...I am so angry that it seems everything I write is a vent.)

Here is my plan - added by the posts you guys have given me.
1) Don't take any drastic action until the learning specialist has had a chance to see how insane this classroom environment is.
2) Try to find other parents and get their take.
3) Try to find out what other teachers are doing.
4) Try to convince DS that it is worth it to do the work...in some different way than before. (he seems to think he is doing the work, or at least he tells me he is doing it (For example, he can explain the stories and questions for reading work)..and he doesn't usually lie....which makes me think that he is doing the work "in his head"...just not thinking it is worthwhile enough to write down.)
5) Investigate further the other schools in the area. (We used to attend a private school before moving here, but we didn't find any that seemed any better, on initial search, than the public schools - besides the public schools usually can accommodate GT students better unless the private school already does.)
6) Have a glass of wine and remember that he is at least doing interesting work at home, when he wants to.

This situation seems very odd! I would seriously consider going with Inky's suggestion and sending in worksheets of your own. You will have to spend some time during the weekends to assess where he actually is (there are some links to online assessments posted recently) and then at the very least just buy some workbooks. WITH the expectation that if he doesn't do it there, then he does it at home. My goodness, if you have to do the work of organizing, motivating and monioring the work, you should at least get to choose the curriculum!

I think you can get through this if you DON'T take the attitude that it's ok that he 'work when he wants to' but I wouldn't really force him to do work that is just rediculous, and if the teacher isn't cooperating with communication then why not proced as if this is just 'free babysitting?'

Is homeschooling in the cards?

Grinity -
Thanks.
I said he "works when he wants to" to say that I didn't make him sit down everyday and do school at home or whatever. If we decide we are exploring a topic, then by goodness, we are going to do it.

I do like you idea to find him some assessment or something to see where he really is. His psychologist said (he did not test him, just working with him for his explosive-breakdown thing when he gets frustrated...which has improved immensely) that he was reading at least at a 5th grade level and doing about that at math. TBH I thought he was exaggerating, but now I want to know.

I used to be kind of "anti-workbook," but I can't imagine creating problem sets as well, so I think I will see what they are really made of (rather than judging them).

Although sometimes I pretend it is, HS is not a serious option at this time bc I am writing a dissertation - and I really *need* my two hours by myself in the mornings (DS5 goes to Montessori mornings). I suppose it is always a little on the table, but part of me has trouble with that. I think we will need to exhaust other options first. I think I might be able to pull it off now..but eventually, I will graduate...and probably want a job. Poor DS would be so far ahead and so hard to re-adapt to school...I dunno. Pros and Cons are hard to measure with such an uncertain future.

We used a sitter so I could write my novel and still homeschool.

No pressure--hard sell is not my style! But I would suggest that you not write off homeschooling as impossible if it is something that might solve your problems.

It's also not necessary to homeschool forever. I always say that for us, homeschooling is not a philosophy, it's a practical solution to a real-life problem. When a better solution (or a different problem!) comes along, we'll change what we're doing. I know families who have kids who have been in public school, private school AND have homeschooled at various stages of their education, and they're just lovely kids! Homeschooling doesn't have to be a "forever" decision. It sure isn't necessarily "forever" for our family.

Case in point: next year I'll have one child in public school and one homeschooled (I think, assuming nothing changes between now and then...). I also figure DS7 will eventually wind up in private school sometime. If public school isn't a good fit for DS4 as I think it will be, then we'll figure something else out for him. Those are the best choices for each child, as an individual, so that's what we're doing.

I'm all for exhausting options with the school if that suits you and your child. Go, you! But misunderstandings about homeschooling and how to make it work are common, so I would strongly recommend that you learn more about it if you think it is a potential solution before you decide against it. I hate to see people lock themselves in a box that isn't really there, you know? And just knowing that you *could* choose to homeschool if you want to--even if you decide not to--can allow you to negotiate with the school from a position of strength. You don't have to feel like they're the only game in town. Just having another option gives you courage, you know?

Happy to talk about it further if you want. Or not.

This comment sets my teeth on edge, but maybe you can use it to your advantage. Ask if your son can take the end of year assessments in order to make "student-focused, data-driven decisions."

Your plan sounds good and I second Grinity's modification. As far as workbooks, I found DD does not like the kind that are just pages of calculations. We've had good luck with Addison-Wesley Mathematics Building Thinking Skills Workbook. It includes critical thinking, reasoning, and data analysis. Another one she likes is the Dorling Kindersley Math Made Easy.

I've explained to DD that it's important that she works at the appropriate level and why. I also think children need to have down time, so she understands why it's important to do this at school instead of relying on afterschooling.


Sounds like you have good reasons to vent and I share your anger about this situation. The silver lining may be that the principal will know you aren't a good match for a lackluster teacher next year!

Thanks inky and Kriston!

I guess now I wonder how he will get GT services if he won't "do first grade." Maybe another visit to the learning specialist is in order.

I guess I never stated it...but DS6 is in a public "Montessori" classroom, so his teacher is his teacher for 1.2.3....which probably makes the whole situation seem phenomenally worse (to me). I put Montessori in quotes because the classroom doesn't follow the philosophy, really. There are kids from all three ages, and they do have some materials....but that is the end of it. Maybe this gets back to Kriston's earlier point on neglect vs. self-sufficiency.



I suppose that is an adaptation that may work for us....I will think further about our options. I hadn't really considered still pursuing my own thing if I took him out of school.


I am much more motivated now. I like that, here at least, I don't have to worry about the non-understanding of parents with ND kids.

Good.

I am mostly remembering the complete panic I felt when seeing just HOW BAD the fit was for my DS7, and recalling the complete lack of control over the situation that I felt. I felt like it was their world, and we had to fit into it, one way or another. It was a horrible, desperate feeling. I think that virtually ANYTHING you can do to take back control of your child's education that works for you is good. For some people, advocacy does that, and hallelujah if it does! I support that choice 100%.

Given my personality and school situation, however, the thought of prolonged advocacy in a rigid school system with little chance of success made my feelings of panic and hopelessness worse, not better. Realizing that I didn't have to deal with the school at all if I didn't want to was what helped me. It was really the best feeling I can ever recall: I went from desperation and deep despair--Oh, the tears! And I'm not much of a cryer--to joy and relief. From night to day in the blink of an eye.

<shrug> Different strokes for different folks. Thank goodness we have options! That's why I definitely think you're smart to consider all possibilities, no matter how far-fetched they might seem to you now. You might be surprised what works for you.

That does make it phenomenally worse!
In that case, I'd try to get a teacher change. Talk to the parents of children in higher grades about what they thought of the different teachers. If you can any find parents of gifted children, that's even better.

Do kids stay and play after school on the playground? This could offer you the opportunity to strike up a conversation with another parent. This is how I found out that DD's 1st grade teacher would be the best match for 1st grade (and probably the best match I'll ever have at this school).

Even with a gem of a teacher who has been receptive to some of things I've advocated for, I've been second guessing whether I should have gone with my original plan to homeschool this year.

The teacher lets my daughter work on the challenging math after completing daily class assignment in the 1st grade workbook. She's also started giving her books to read that are at the appropriate level and more challenging spelling. Even with these accommodations, I know DD is spending much of the day reviewing things she's already mastered.

Knowing that I do have the alternative to homeschool helps keep the panicky and hopeless feelings somewhat in check. This allows me to be a more effective advocate. That's why I'm glad there are people on this board who've made public school work and people who've made homeschooling work. Unfortunately, either way it's a lot of work!

Update (not much of one).

I decided this morning that Friday's examination of the work went over so well, I would just look at his work everyday! So, I graded all the worksheets that I had sitting around (it is my volunteer job), and I headed off to pick DS6 up from school.
Again, no parents. I guess the other kids get in cars or ride the bus or something; I am not saying I see no parents, that would be crazy..just none from my son's class. It doesn't help that his class is released from a different class each day (Monday - Music..Tuesday PE, etc). [You know, when I write it down, it seems crazy-er than it seemed previously.]

Well, I found DS6 and set off to his classroom to check his work; sadly his teacher was not there (can we add a DT - dear teacher?). But, I had him show me his work...he didn't claim to do much, but his SRA that he showed me was unfinished, as expected. He said that he told DT100 he wasn't finished, but I guess time was up or something, and she was like "whatever...you can finish another day."

Another parent came in the room - so happy I was, really - but it turns out that her kid is in the co-taught class and didn't have the same frustrations as I did. I was pretty direct (well, she came in while I was quizzing DS6 about his work and all, so it was a good opening), but I managed to ask while the kids were distracted with each other (DS5 is quite the socialite). Sadly, I didn't find a comrade, but I did make contact with another parent..who now knows my concerns ---and just might know a parent in DS's class.

Tomorrow is another day.

Update 2.

Sadly, none of the parents (of 4) that I have now found and questioned (creatively in some cases) share my concerns. Either their kids do the work as assigned, or they don't have a clue what their kids do.

Monday, I received notice from the specialist (who I was counting on to finally force some accountability/positive reinforcement) that DT100 doesn't think DS needs any sort of help or accountability record since he is "improving so much." Heartened by this improvement, I went to see what indeed had changed - that I hadn't noticed in my after school work examination time with DS. As far as I can tell, NOTHING has changed - improvement or otherwise. Even in talking with DT100 yesterday, when it wasn't appropriate to bring up these concerns directly, it was blatantly obvious that DS was not meeting expectations or doing self-directed work as assigned.

So, I am thinking that I need to talk to DT100 in person with a clear goal of finding out what it is that DS is supposed to do, how DS is supposed to report/note what he did, and what DS is "improving" on exactly.

My plan is to send an email to request a meeting. I plan to say:
I am hoping that we can set up a time in the near future to meet about DS' work and reporting-of-work-completed habits. I had met with *specialist* about the same topic, but *specialist* suggested that DS does not need a specific plan or chart at this time.

Does anyone think I should say more or less? I am trying to avoid one of those email flubs that get teachers so angry

Oh...note I am trying not to say:
DS6 is so ubersmart that the activities you give DS6 are dull and repetitive, thus he avoids them. If you continue to ignore DS6 and let him sit around reading all day and playing math games without writing down the problems or solutions so you know what he knows, his love-of-learning spirit will slowly be smothered by the activities that you make him do during lessons that are beneath his academic level.

Instead, I am going with ... let's get DS6 to show how much he can do to force DT100 and counterparts to let DS6 work on more interesting things.

Sorry, it sounds like you're surrounded by mushrooms who'd prefer to remain in the dark.

I would include something in the note about wanting to discuss the specific improvements she's seen so you can work as a team to build on them.

Thanks for your suggestion, Inky!

like your metaphor!

I nabbed the metaphor from the More Child Blog. She referred to mushroom parents, but I find it goes even beyond parents. Glad you liked it too.

Hi--I'm a newbie, but I had to reply to your message. I'm a retired teacher and I know exactly what you mean because we went through the same thing when our son was in K.

When the teacher suggested he go to the Pre K group, I was amazed. He could already read, but she didn't know it until March and she wanted him to go to a class learning their colors....

When she said I was welcome to visit anytime without warning, I took her word for it and did in November. She was very surprised when I appeared. We barely made it through that year.

One visit and I could see part of the problem. It was a multi-age group which I thought would work very well. The class was big with special needs and behavior problems. The teacher's room had lack of coordination and her lessons lacked skill or planning .

When she taught she would teach from one side of the classroom and expect kids to look over their shoulders, around a book shelf and copy what she had written without giving K students any writing experience or letter formation. Then get upset if they fell behind. I've never understood that.

I found out a few years late that she is ADD, but had no understanding of others with special needs...

There were several things that year that made no sense (like the work you mentioned, expecting homework, but she wouldn't ask for it. She said it was their responsiblity...he had only been potty trained for two years, but he had to remember book money, milk money, homework, his jacket etc etc. Sigh....I just asked if she never asked for things, how did she get the library books back ....Her eyes bugged out a little on that one. I think she was used to intimidating people and I was just quietly polite and relentless :-)

The following year, I had him transferred to the district where I taught and things only really improved after he was tested and found to be gifted. Until then, the attitude was that if we would just "get tough" with him, school would be easier. His teacher was a nice, quiet, timid person , but would be upset that he didn't have the pile of worksheets finished each day. She was amazed at his test score and his reading level.So was the principal...

Once our son was tested, things improved. The next year he had a great teacher. Other teachers didn't know what to think about gifted education--even after I had given an after school seminar.

What I learned was that basically, teachers have no idea what to do with gifted children. Many find it very overwhelming when a child knows more than they do (like the moons of Mars at 7 or 8--that bothered the teacher) or a child that can out-think the teacher (and the child be right). I had always found it amazing (I never would have gotten the incubator going without Garrett one year).

When teachers become teachers because they like control, they need another profession. I became a teacher because I love kids and I love teaching (now I guide and I'm learning--I learned Irfanview from our son this year).

The year before I retired, we had a great year! We met the objectives, but we used a variety of ideas. On the money unit, we did a Dollar Store for classes to come to (if we broke even, it was good). This led into economics, supply and demand, decide the price, raise the price, lower the price etc. It was great, but almost every teacher who came there with their class, said "How can you stand this?" or "How do you have time to do this?" They didn't seem to get that children have a variety of ways to learn and that's the fun of it! I loved it. It sure was better than a stack of papers to check (hello--technology? few took their classes to computer lab).


Through his first five years of school-school, once we found out that he was gifted, I had to initiate ideas for him such as acceleration and mentors. I had to find a teacher that would accelerate him. I had to coordinate with a college to start a mentor program (with their Honors College students). If he were still in school--school, I would still be trying to do that.

Things changed when he was going into fifth grade. None of the teachers would allow him mentors (he'd had mentors in geology, astronomy, chemistry, mechanical engineeering etc). They said that he couldn't miss class. No districts had gifted programs and none knew anything about the mentor concept or would allow it.

I decided to retire and homeschool and we love it (though he's a ttteeeeenn nooooowwwww---mostly he's great). He is doing Advanced Placement courses for free online-- a real bargain for college credits. We are part of a group that are all homeschoolers with gifted children (from another city unfortunately) and have had some fantastic field trips with them. Right now I am contacting another college in regard to mentors for computer engineering. He's a real geek (lovingly and respectfully said) that has either self-taught or computer-taught a long list of skills in programming and design. I won't bother to add that list! He needs a mentor to talk the talk of computerese.

So, what you do, you do. See what fits, but you are not alone. The real tragedy is that teachers are NOT trained to work with gifted children (2-5% of the population) and don't know what to do. In this country, our focus is on the TEST and below grade level. Now, the needy children, yes. The test, dump it. Have the principal help and guide teachers. IF they can't then they need to move on to another profession.

Our country is getting behind in this area and now would be a great time to send an email to the Education Dept at national level. I think they'd understand, but the more they hear it, the more of an impression it will make.

OK, I am too wordy and my educational soapbox is put away, but exactly what you were talking about is exactly what we went through. Hang in there. Your child is worth it. Remember the gifted are gifts.

Believe me, I wanted a gifted surgeon...And later, a mechanic for the car. We need them all, but we can't neglect this group.

Karen

Thanks KTC for the perspective.

I still have to wait for the testing, but we will see how it goes.

One day at a time. Gifted child anonymous.