Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy First parent-teacher conference,feeling frustrated

DS5 started K at our local public school 5 weeks ago. We knew it would be difficult for the teacher to challenge him. He had tested into the self-contained gifted classroom at our previous district with 99th percentiles across all categories, but then we had to move. No GT programming here except a pull out for 3rd-5th.

So, I noticed a change in him after about the third day of school. I don't know how else to describe it except to say it was like someone had hit the dimmer switch. My normally bright, radiantly happy and inquisitive boy just seemed not himself. He had been so excited to start school, and now he is just down in the dumps. Of course, I know they are just working on counting objects and letter ID and sounds, which has to be frustrating for him. I have really started to consider homeschooling as the only feasible alternative. But was hoping I could work with the teacher to implement differentiation or maybe single subject acceleration and see if that helps before pulling him out.

Well, the conference didn't lead to that result. She said the Dibels test puts him at 3rd grade level for reading, so she will be focusing on reading comprehension with him instead of just phonics. But then she said he still needed phonics practice for spelling, which I get, but that means he still has to practice "f says ffff" for a week? And she insisted he was assessed as GRADE-LEVEL for math! This is a kid who has been obsessed with numbers since he could talk at age 1....he does multiplication, division, fractions, decimals, percentages, negative numbers....he invents math problems to entertain himself. But she said he skipped 13 and 14 when she asked him to count to 20 (not counting objects, just counting aloud). Doesn't sound like there was much more to the math "assessment." She also commented that he writes many of his numbers backwards, which to me, is a separate issue. She did finally agree to let him do "some above grade-level math worksheets" as an early-finisher activity. She said a lot about how smart he is and how she wants him to advance a full-year's worth academically, even though he is starting at a high level. And that's what I want! But I'm not sure I advocated well-enough or assertively enough for him. Even though she said the right things generally, I am realizing as I reflect on the conference that I'm dissatisfied with the specifics of the plan, and I have no confidence in her ability to understand my son's true abilities (especially if she thinks he can't count to 20).

Argh. I feel overwhelmed. I just don't know how to do this. I have read many posts on this forum and found some good insight and advice, but I am still not sure where to go from here or what to ask for next...more thorough assessment? acceleration? Do I pay for a private psychoed eval? Or do I just give up and supplement at home while we figure out if we can make homsechooling work for us?

Unfortunately, not all differentiation is positive. Parents need to probe to see what the buzzword means in the specific context of what is being offered for their child.

Proof of mastery should suffice to exempt him and/or make him eligible for compacted curriculum so he can quickly move through this phase of lessons.

This may actually mean that the assessment was capped at grade-level, therefore your child hit a ceiling and they did not offer to measure above that. For example, by assessing counting only, and not addition, subtraction, multiplication, division.

Kiddos working independently, in isolation, is not an ideal experience as they do not develop a sense of:
- being able to ask questions,
- that it is OK to not know something or to be wrong,
- that they can depend on a teacher to guide them and help them move forward,
- belonging to a group of intellectual/academic peers.

A teacher's evaluation and compensation may depend upon the "growth" of students as shown by assessments. Unfortunately beginning with an artificially low inbound measure can make the outbound measure appear to represent one year's growth.

Have you recapped the meeting with a letter or e-mail stating any areas of agreement, outstanding questions, next steps discussed?

Each of these strategies, and combinations of them, have been used successfully.

I would ask if they have end-of-the year assessments for math, for each grade (or even quarter or semester assessments). DS is in third and was given the end of the year third, fourth, and fifth grade assessments and passed them all with at least 85 percent accuracy, so they put him in 6th grade for math. They do this with all the kids in the school, so I didn't need to argue or ask about anything (I was simply informed that DS was going to a 6th grade classroom for math), but you could argue for that on an individual basis. If that doesn't work, ask if he can pre-test for units and if he gets a certain score, skip that unit. If he does pass out of it, figure out what you want him to do. DS did Khan Academy (before he went to current, flexible school). It wasn't the ideal situation, but at least he wasn't forced to sit through endless lectures about how to figure out 2+2. I'm guessing you probably have a battle on your hands. You may want to go directly to the principal and ask what they do for kids who are very advanced in math. I'm sure you did this already, but make sure the teacher knows that you don't agree with the counting assessment, and your DS must simply have been not paying attention/made a silly error.

I agree with blackcat's suggestion that you find out how many years ahead your child is in math by using the end of year assessments for your school, if at all possible. If they use their own school assessments, it will have more power than if you do some other out-of-level standardized test.

If you can get that done, and he is several years ahead, the school might see the light about his inappropriate placement. If he is just one year or so ahead, a teacher can often differentiate properly within the grade level.

I also agree with what Indigo said about independent learning. While it is appropriate sometimes, I saw this have a negative affect on my very social child -- feeling left out of everything.

So I guess overall my advice is to gather more information about your child. You are doing well at this advocating stuff so far!

First, I am sorry for your situation, which, as you have likely read, is quite common on these threads. :-(

The Davidson Website has many good articles that you could go through to see what might help inform your path. I personally would not jump to homeschooling unless you are really excited about it, at least not before trying a few more times with the current school. You can reasonably assume, but of course verify, that your son's teacher has zero or little experience in knowing what to do with a gifted child in K. That means, unfortunately, you get to train the trainer, so to speak. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

Did you happen to mention to the teacher the change in attitude you are seeing in your son? Most teachers do care about how children feel about school.

I would definitely ask for end of year K and 1 tests to be administered. Be sure your son knows the intent is to try to figure out what he knows, so he should do his best. Once that's done, you may need to schedule a discussion with the principal and the teacher. Does either know that he had previously tested at a 99% into a self-contained gifted program?

Was the move because of military? I just ask because in the past few years, they have started the School Liaison program. That can be an additional advocating tool if available.

Ask if the school would consider letting him spend a week in a 1st grade classroom and see if that sparks his attention and spirit. Our DS's experience sounds similar. Enriched preschool (they actually allowed him to attend their private Kinder program because he was so much happier with older kids). Then public Kindergarten where he was just way ahead from the start. He was pretty flexible with the classroom that Kinder year because he understood that he got to go to Kinder a year early and it was only half day anyway. 1st grade he was miserable from the start and shut down.

We had him privately tested (WISC-IV) so we could get some idea of what to do. We already had it in our heads that acceleration/ grade skip might the easiest way to handle his frustrations. The private evaluation also agreed that he was a candidate for a grade skip. At first the principal said no, but I also appealed to the school psychologist and after speaking with DS (he was positive about the idea of skipping - also very well-behaved and tall for his age). They gave him benchmark tests (which he passed) and VOILA. End of October he went from 1st to a 2nd grade classroom. He was still ahead in math and reading, but he had work to do in writing that kept him challenged.

I'm not sure how common/accepted acceleration is in the public schools (I'm sure it depends on the school district). But if you feel like your son might be a candidate, a private evaluation might help you advocate better. In our case, it just hadn't been done before and people needed to "have their minds opened" to the possibility. In addition, the right teacher makes a world of a difference.

I am SO appreciative of all of your feedback and suggestions! I agree that just some individualized/independent work won't be sufficient, and reading the comments on that helps me know to push for more. I really like the suggestion of asking for EOY assessments to be given to see where he is in math and which grade-level he might be ready for. But I do worry that his development is uneven (mathematical reasoning is advanced but handwriting is lagging behind and he has a low tolerance for repitition). He is also very small for his age and gets anxious in new social situations, so not sure he would be a good candidate for a grade skip, but I would consider it if we get to that point.

I did tell the teacher about the change in his mood, and she seemed to attribute it to adjusting to long school days and negotiationg social situations (he hasn't had any problems with other kids...he is very sweet and agreeable, just sensitive and easily overwhelmed). Her thoughts on that could be true, but I think school in general is dragging him down because it's tedious for him.

We aren't military...just relocated for my husband's job, but that's cool they have that service! I could use a school liason about now. We are not really wanting to homsechool because in general, we are big proponents of public school and community-minded. We also tend to respect and comply with the "professional's" advice on what to do in most situations. So even though we knew our son would have unique learning needs, I think we were naiive in thinking his teacher would immediately see his abilities and have amazing ideas about how to help him. I haven't told her about the testing in our previous district because we weren't sure it would make a difference. But now I'm regretting not being more proactive. I realize now I will need to be more assertive and armed with information if I want my son to have a positive school experience.

Regarding a potential grade skip, the website of the Acceleration Institute may be of interest, including the Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS).

How often do they retest? And do they group within the classroom? In NZ the first 2 years of school are the most flexible because the have about 5 reading groups and 3 maths groups which are always being reformed as kids change in relation to others. Most of the teachers don't let on which groups are highest and lowest and it seems like a giant shell game to the parents but the kids don't seem to mind. Sometimes one of my kids has not done well enough to go up with the rest of his group one week then has made a big step the next as something clicked.

If they retest monthly then i would leave it. He could quite easily have been distracted when counting and they woukdn't have tested more advanced stuff especially if they thought he couldn't count to 20. As for phonics it depends how much time they are spending on it and how long they will keep doing it.

You do not need to skip a whole grade. You could try just going to the appropriate grade just for math (or for whatever the subject is that he is really far ahead in.)

Great point. Single Subject Acceleration (SSA) is often helpful.

Here's a link to another post mentioning single-subject acceleration.

aj614, you've received a lot of good advice above - I have just a few randomish suggestions, in no particular order:

* You haven't shared the results of his previous testing with the school. I would share - it's an important data point that separates you from other parents. We saw just about every other parent in our childrens' K-1 classrooms insisting that their child was gifted and needed differentiation - which most likely means you aren't the only parent who's requesting something extra for your child. What you have that most other parents aren't going to have is proof (in the previous testing) that your ds is capable of more and you aren't just an over-eager parent.

* Recap what's happened so far with a brief summary email, request end-of-year-testing, and attach a copy of the previous testing with the email request.

* If you can't get the school to provide the end-of-year testing, one way to get proof of math achievement is to have an evaluation at a private math tutoring service. I won't mention names, but one of the national chains that operates here gives every student who's considering signing up a very widely recognized-by-schools achievement test, and they test above grade level for kids who are capable. It will cost money, but not as much money as going for a complete ability vs achievement set of testing. Another testing option might be to check and see who your local homeschool community uses for testing - we found very affordable ability vs achievement testing that way.

* Don't discount what your ds' teacher says about where your child is or how they are coping with the "long day" etc - get the details behind what's been said. Not every gifted child is gifted across all subjects and all situations - and there may be something your ds is struggling with that you aren't seeing. I doubt it, but it did happen to us - so it's something that I just suggest trying to be aware of. I was all too eager to brush off concerns from our ds' teacher in K-2nd grade simply because he was so smart, but ultimately he also had a challenge which was causing him a lot of stress at school.

* Try to spend time in your ds' classroom if you can. It might help to know what the environment is like - are the other students on task or are there a lot of behavior issues in the classroom? What's the teacher like in action, not just in conferencing? When do they eat? Is your ds hungry at the end of the day? Is he really having to learn phonic sounds rather than phonics for spelling? What is he like in the classroom?

* Find out if there is a gifted program coordinator at your district level (above the school level). Contact the supervisor and ask for advice. It's possible there is some type of programming/help out there that isn't advertised, and the gifted supervisor is going to be (hopefully) much more familiar with the testing your ds has had than his school teacher is likely to be.

* Are there any other school options available to you other than the school he's in and homeschool? We were also huge proponents of public school until we had issues, and finally left for a private school. It wasn't even a "gifted" school yet it made *all* the difference in the world for our ds.

* If the school can't offer differentiation, can you offer anything yourself as a parent volunteer? When our children were in early elementary (in a school with no gifted program) there was a parent who volunteered once per week and ran a math pull-out for the higher level math students, and I used to volunteer once per week helping students with writing and spelling.

Hang in there!

polarbear

Again, I so appreciate the advice and ideas! I have volunteered to help in the classroom, but have been waiting over two weeks for the background check to get done so that I can start helping. (Yet another frustration.) Hopefully I will be able to start soon! She wants to use me during reading groups two mornings per week. I am also "room mom" and K PTA rep! Probably shouldn't have been such an eager beaver since I'm now considering pulling him out. But in all seriousness, I am willing to work hard to make it work if we can, and the teacher and I have a good relationship. She does have a challenging class and she is a young, fairly new teacher. The private schools in our town are more than we can afford, even if I went back to work. But there are three charter schools I might visit. I think I was a little stunned after the conference, and now that I've had time to reflect, talk to DS and DH more, etc., I am ready to approach the teacher with the info about his previous testing and ask for more, especially in math. This weekend, he figured out for himself how to multiply fractions, and was excited to discover they "get smaller when you multiply them!" I really feel this is his strongest area of giftedness.

My son went to a first-grade classroom for reading, writing, and math instruction while he was in K. He stayed with K for science, morning activities, lunch, "specials" etc. All in all it was something like a 40/60 split (40% 1st grade). In 1st grade, he was excused from most on-grade classwork in reading and math and given a great deal of independent work, which he was able to handle as he is self-motivated and mature. I don't know if these options will work for you. Just giving examples of what we did.

My state lets schools set the criteria for their gifted programs. It made it a little tricky to transfer schools Similar to you, our old district did just pull outs for kids 3rd and above.

Because our old school was painfully slow at sending records, I ended up providing my copies of previous testing. They took the Stanfords and OLSAT for my 10yo. We homeschooled last year, but they would not take our CAT testing since they only wanted to rely on testing performed by another school or their own. So please bear that in mind if you think about doing your own testing.

Will they let you request testing? Our new district had a parent referral form or teachers could do the requesting. I recommend you be the ones to request, though. I seemed to have better luck transferring in (as much trouble as it was) than parents have when they request the testing.

FWIW, I was told by our son's K teacher that they really didn't do math. That is, their sole focus was on getting everyone to read in Kinder. I'm sure math was touched on peripherally, but there were no 1+1=2 sheets coming home, that's for sure! So their "assessment", unless it was some kind of standardized test, is not one I'd put much stock in. A lot of teachers through the years would do the PALS testing for my kids and they were at grade level, only because they stopped at grade level. They didn't want to waste the time continuing the test to see what the true grade level was.

Our old district, which wasn't keen on grade skips, would let some kids visit a grade ahead's classroom for reading or math, as appropriate. It might be a stepping stone to getting a skip later if they are open to this type of arrangement now.

Hearing about others' experiences is so helpful! I emailed his K teacher and told her about his percentile scores from the testing that was done in our previous district. I offered to give her a copy of the results for his file if that would be helpful. I also told her that after reflecting on our discussion during the conference and talking to DS more about his desires for school, we want to pursue additional accomodations for him in math. I asked if he could be given EOY assessments for K and 1st grade and then we could consider single-subject acceleration to a 1st or 2nd grade classroom for math as deemed appropriate. I was so nervous hitting "send" on this email! It was perfectly friendly and upbeat and only making requests, not demands, but I still worry how it will be received. Anyone else struggle with feeling like you are becoming "that" parent? Anyway, she replied the next day to say that she was going to set up a meeting with the school's AIG specialist to discuss math options for DS. I am hopeful the AIG specialist has dealt with a kid like mine before and will help us get the best fit in math instruction for DS! In the meantime, we are supplementing at home. He comes home excited to do some math practice with me and learn something new. He says he wants to go to 4th grade for math because he "wants it to be hard to do!"

It is super helpful to hear what others have experienced and to figure out the best way to seek solutions to issues. I can't tell you how much I've appreciated this forum for that. And yes, I, too, have to fight that feeling of being 'that' parent. It's like jumping into a cold swimming pool; I'm slowly getting used to dealing with the school folks.