Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Any advice on what to ask about early K?

We're meeting with our local elementary school tomorrow to talk about early entry kindergarten for DS4. I'm wondering if anyone who did early K has any advice on specific things to ask or look out for. From where I sit, it's hard to know what I don't know about succeeding in early K for HG/PG kids. If you've gone through it, is there anything you'd recommend that we think about before deciding whether to send DS?

We'll be looking for teacher/principal attitude and general fit, whether the environment there seems like it will work for his temperament, openness to single-subject acceleration (he's about 3 years above age in reading), support from the administration and AIG coordinator, and whether DS4 likes it. What else am I missing? Was there anything you found to be key to a successful grade skip straight out of the gate? Anything you wish you'd known? Any words of caution?

Many thanks!

How early? Does he just miss the cut off or is he really young?

I would ask what percentage of boys are red-shirted.

Puffin, he's really young. March birthday, so he'd be entering at 4 years 4 months. That's the part I'm most nervous about. But the kid can read second-grade level stuff, add single digits up to 10, put all the numbers in order from 1 to 100, etc. So I'm not sure what to do with him! Making him sit through another year of pre-K doesn't seem quite right, but being in an elementary school class with 6-year-olds sounds...scary. Probably more scary to me than to him. That is good advice to ask about red-shirting. I hadn't thought of that. Thank you!

Check on gross and fine motor skills. I don't know what you do if the motor skills are not strong enough, but I have discovered that they are really important to early school success. Maybe if the child is really young it is obvious and they get a pass, but in my experience with my child, it doesn't matter how well you read in kindergarten, what you have the ability to understand or what your math skills are. You need to be able to sit in a circle for long periods of time, draw, color, and be ready to write. Period. They don't teach that stuff, they expect it. Reading, writing, and arithmetic, they teach. If children come in already knowing the academic stuff, they don't learn much academically anyway.

So on that note, also ask how they provide instruction to early readers. That will tell you a lot. One of the big problems with single subject acceleration for young children is that they have to figure out how to get themselves to the other class....be aware of time, know when to leave the classroom, navigate the hallways, be assertive enough to walk into the other classroom. That's all hard for little kids and sometimes it doesn't work out, so if they accelerate, ask how those logistics happen.

Thanks for the advice! I asked about all of these things. I think his motor skills will be just fine. Sounds like red-shirting is not a big deal in this area (the district AIG coordinator was there and she only had heard of one case in the last few years).

I wasn't blown away by their ability to explain how they would differentiate. It sounds like their AIG program is a bit in flux, although they also said they try to differentiate for everything, grouping similar-ability students together in the classroom. They said they were very committed to differentiation, and outlined a few possible approaches (single-subject pull-out, in-class ability grouping, and a school AIG teacher who might do...something), but they didn't seem to have a clear system in place. So I'm not really sure what to make of that.

Now we wait to see what they say, although the principal, vice-principal, and AIG coordinator all seemed to think DS would be a good candidate for early K.

Thank you for the recommendations!

While early entrance to kindergarten is your immediate concern, over time you may wish to keep an eye on differentiation. A lot has been written about differentiation and not all differentiation is positive. Differentiation only means that something is "different", not necessarily that the educational experience is more appropriate, facilitates growth, or presents curriculum, instruction, pacing at the child's zone of proximal development (ZPD). One easy method to help parents plainly understand plans for a child's differentiation despite buzzwords which may be used is to categorize the information the teacher/school provides into the categories of Who-What-Where-When-Why-and-How (5Ws).
- "grouping similar-ability students" fits into the category of Who
- "a school AIG teacher" is also Who
- "pull-out" or "in-class" would belong to the category Where
- "ability grouping" may indicate a qualifying need and be in the category Why

If families do not receive information for the other categories, What-When-How, they may wish to inquire:
- Length/duration/frequency of the program/services offered would answer the question When.
- Autodidactic independent study, math 1 year ahead of grade level, and reading while waiting for other students to complete their work, may be examples of What.
- Worksheets, computer programs, books from a designated shelf, or other descriptions of the media used may answer the question category of How the differentiation or other gifted program/service will be delivered.

Ideally parents would be aware of the Who-What-Where-When-Why-How of any differentiation. While students may need and seek differentiated instruction, curriculum, and pacing, over time families have made others aware of differentiation involving various degrees of social isolation, more-fferentiation, and differentiation in task demands, sometimes leading to underachievement or burn-out.

Have you read the Davidson guidebook, Advocating for Exceptionally Gifted Young People?

Do you have info on preparing for a meeting? Lots of good advice has been shared on other threads recently as it seems several families have scheduled meetings. Some of the tips were -

- Research state laws and the school or district policies and practices. This information is often found online. You may wish to print and put this in an advocacy ring binder to refer to over the years as the laws and policies/practices may change over time.
- Have any test results and other pertinent facts available to share (milestones, reading lists, other accomplishments/achievements)
- It is good to have them speak first. If asked to speak first, you may simply wish to thank everyone for attending and summarize that you are all here to share information and ideas about how to best meet your child's educational needs... and that you would like to hear from them.
- Agenda
- Know who is in the meeting, and their role(s)
- Stay calm
- Know what you are asking for
- TAKE NOTES including Who-What-Where-When-Why-How of differentiation, so you can summarize in an e-mail afterward [Some families announce they plan to record the meeting and then do so, rather than taking notes.]
- Use active listening (rephrase what has been said, and put it in a question form) to clarify understanding
- Be open to receiving the school's data/observations.
- Listen to any proposals they may make, ask appropriate probing questions, such as how a proposal may work, how the proposal may help your child, the schedule/frequency of service delivery, etc
- Do not be forced to make a decision if you need time
- Summarize next steps & time frames, and/or need for a follow-up meeting
- Thank everyone for their time & interest
- After the meeting, write a summary (points of agreement, etc) and share it, possibly by e-mail

Indigo, your clarification on differentiation was really helpful to read. Thank you. I would like to know the who-what-when-where-how of differentiation. Although the team had suggestions about who and how, they did not seem to have a clear answer on the timing/duration/frequency of differentiation or what specific things would be done. The AIG coordinator did say that her plan was to facilitate instruction that was "all AIG all the time," saying that gifted students aren't just gifted for an hour or two per week for pull-out classes; they are gifted all the time and may need differentiation in everything. I took that as a positive sign.

I haven't read the Davidson guide (this is all so new!), but I certainly will. I feel lucky that we live in a state that has a clear application process in place for early K admission. We had to submit IQ scores, achievement test results, a portfolio, and some recommendation letters from his preschool teachers. Then the district takes it from there. They set up a team to meet with us and DS, including the district AIG coordinator, and we had the opportunity to ask many questions. It felt very collaborative and positive, and I'm thankful that was the case. I know sometimes advocating for a grade skip can be much more difficult.

We haven't heard a final decision yet, but the whole team seemed to think that DS was a good candidate for early K, with remarkable little persuasion required on our parts. My main concern now is that I don't think they quite know what they're in for with DS, and I suspect differentiation is going to be more complex than they anticipate (and as you describe above).

The principal has only been at this school for a few years, so she hasn't had any early K applicants yet, and DS's test scores (99.8-99.9) seemed to stand out to her as something unusual. He doesn't seem unusual to me, but I think I just have very little sense for what a typical 4 year old is like.

Yes, that is a strong positive! It aligns with this youtube video Gifted All The Time by Dr. Dan Peters of Summit Center.

Indigo, you are full of resources! Thank you.

Good news today: the principal gave the go-ahead for DS to start kindergarten a year early. So now we're in the final stages of making sure this is really the right thing for him. It's hard to know for certain if it's the best decision, but I'm pretty sure we'll end up doing it anyway.

Thanks for the help and advice!

Because the decision you are considering is essentially a "whole grade acceleration", you may wish to look at the Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS) as an objective measure. Possibly the school is already aware of this tool and is using it?

Because gifted children may grow academically/intellectually by leaps and bounds, then experience a plateau, or show marked asynchrony, parents may find themselves frequently re-evaluating the "fit" of the learning environment and making fresh decisions about the best placement option (or least-worst fit) each year. Taking it a year at a time and knowing adjustments can be made as your child's needs change, can help increase confidence in decisions.

The IAS-3 manual shares these research results on page 122: