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    Joined: Feb 2013
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    22B Offline
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    Originally Posted by coveln
    I highly recommend the book we used this summer when DD turned 7. She has better verbal skills so when I stumbled across this book I had to try it. she devoured the book in about 20 min the first day. we left it alone for a month or so then spent about 5 min on it for 5 days in a row to review and she knows them pretty well now. Prior to this she knew some and she understood the concept but in less than an hour she learned up through 10x10. The book assigns each number a picture and then makes up a story that combines the three numbers. One of my daughters favorite is 2 x 8 which is shoe x skate and the story is something about a queen that wanted to skate but only had one skate and one shoe and so she just went in circles and became "sick queen" which sounds like sixteen. They have a picture too which helps solidify the story. Its great for this type of learner.
    ...Memorize in Minutes: The Times Tables, Teaching Manual Paperback – July 15, 2000
    by Alan Walker

    We found it on amazon

    As a mathematician I have to say that this approach is absolutely appalling.

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    slammie Offline OP
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    [/quote]

    As a mathematician I have to say that this approach is absolutely appalling. [/quote]

    Can you give some feedback as to why you feel this way? These methods aren't sound for teaching the foundation of multiplication, sure, but for memorizing..well I don't see how it differs from rote practice whatever method you use, flashcards, games, chanting, etc.
    It would be helpful to explain the reasoning behind your comment. In our case, using this method has worked and finally we have moved onto long division and multiplication.

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    22B Offline
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    Let me come back with a question. Why would anyone imagine that multiplication tables are something to be memorized? How about knowing and understanding them instead? They are interwoven with all kinds of patterns. Why miss all that?

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    Originally Posted by 22B
    Let me come back with a question. Why would anyone imagine that multiplication tables are something to be memorized? How about knowing and understanding them instead? They are interwoven with all kinds of patterns. Why miss all that?

    I don't see why it has to be a binary proposition. It seems to me that the child should first be given a conceptual basis for understanding what, exactly, multiplication is. Then, as the children are being asked to learn individual multiples, discussion of the patterns presented is valuable.

    The final step should be demonstrating mastery of the tables through memorization for speed and fluency purposes, which will be tested shortly, when multi-digit multiplication and long division are explored, then moving on into decimals, conversions of fractions to decimals, etc. The child who hasn't memorized their tables by this point will come across as "slow," or "not mathy," with all the consequences that entails. On the other hand, the child who has memorized them will not be wasting unnecessary brain power on many simple operations during this stage, will therefore learn more about the bigger concepts, and will enjoy this stage of math much more.

    I have seen children flailing and failing in middle school math primarily because they never learned their multiplication tables in third grade.

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    How very timely (haha). DD5 has just started her "exes" at school. Somehow, all of the other kids in her class (except for one other girl) apparently already know their "exes". Wow. Holy heck. OK. So I thought perhaps I should teach dd5? I have been using a combination of the following, and it seems to be going well -

    1) MathUSee skip counting songs. Gotta start somewhere. For some reason my kids have found these easier to sing along with than the School House rock ones.

    2) Little games that look like this:
    (this is not us - just a video I found online)

    - right now she uses legos to complete her math homework which consists of sheets of multiplication problems (both word problems and straight multiplication problems). At least she is completing it herself - I don't know how else she would do it.

    3) Mom pestering them at snack time, on the way to school, while putting on PJ's - What's 6 times 3, 6 times 7, 6 times 2....I think I will try to focus on one set every day or two until they have them down.

    On one hand, I can't believe my littlest one is learning multiplication facts - on the other hand, I am really looking forward to the end of the "math facts" learning era... it is like getting your kid out of diapers...


    Last edited by mom123; 10/06/14 07:31 AM.
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    slammie Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    Originally Posted by 22B
    Let me come back with a question. Why would anyone imagine that multiplication tables are something to be memorized? How about knowing and understanding them instead? They are interwoven with all kinds of patterns. Why miss all that?

    I don't see why it has to be a binary proposition. It seems to me that the child should first be given a conceptual basis for understanding what, exactly, multiplication is. Then, as the children are being asked to learn individual multiples, discussion of the patterns presented is valuable.

    The final step should be demonstrating mastery of the tables through memorization for speed and fluency purposes, which will be tested shortly, when multi-digit multiplication and long division are explored, then moving on into decimals, conversions of fractions to decimals, etc. The child who hasn't memorized their tables by this point will come across as "slow," or "not mathy," with all the consequences that entails. On the other hand, the child who has memorized them will not be wasting unnecessary brain power on many simple operations during this stage, will therefore learn more about the bigger concepts, and will enjoy this stage of math much more.

    I have seen children flailing and failing in middle school math primarily because they never learned their multiplication tables in third grade.


    ITA, in fact DD is distracted by the patterns which she finds fascinating but slows the process of spitting them out in class. She also wants to move on to more complex operations but was getting sidetracked by having to calculate the product in her head. I advocated for DD to be in the math group learning 3rd grade concepts but she was not as fluent as some others in multiplication facts which makes convincing the teacher that the placement is appropriate difficult indeed.

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    Kids should understand the multiplication tables, but memorizing is also useful, and in certain cases, we memorize math facts before we understand them. What about calculating the area of a circle? I think we all memorized this one before we understood it...at least I didn't understand the Calculus behind the area formula when I was 10 or 11.

    I'm sure no one here actually figures out multiplication for each and every problem they encounter with the understanding method, though I agree that understanding is key to building on math knowledge.

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    22B Offline
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    Originally Posted by NotSoGifted
    I'm sure no one here actually figures out multiplication for each and every problem they encounter with the understanding method, though I agree that understanding is key to building on math knowledge.
    A mathy kid will go through process of figuring out the multiplication facts, and will understand what they're doing, but after a while these facts will also become available to instant recall. The point is, this process is profoundly different to resorting to an arbitrary collection of gimmicky memorization tricks. The latter is highly undesirable, though I can see there could be pragmatic/desperation reasons for doing it. I would think it would be better that if one couldn't reliably recall the basic 1-digit arithmetic facts, then they move on to learning multidigit arithmetic with a printout of the 1-digit facts to refer to as needed.

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    Just to say I'm with 22B on this (though with the caveat that I have little experience with less mathy children); it seems to me far better for learning to use a crib sheet until its contents have been internalised than to use irrelevant mnemonics for maths facts, if those are the choices. Irrelevant mnemonics might get you through a test at a cost of long-term distraction.

    Better, have relevant mnemonics, e.g., if squares are fine but 7x8 is a problem, know to take 7x7 and add one more 7. Most of my own facts feel less like things I know than like things I know how to work out really, really slickly. Dunno what fMRI would show!


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    Sorry for happening by this thread a bit late! I have a 9 yo who doesn't know all of his times tables yet by rote. We're working on it, though. Once I showed him how convenient knowing them all was for long division, he saw an actual use for just knowing them because it gets the problem done faster.

    I am curious as above the Memorize in Minutes actually piqued my interest. I recently watched a show - Redesign my Brain - which used that type of technique for memorizing playing cards and remembering people. (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/redesign-my-brain-with-todd-sampson/)

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