How old was your DC when they memorized the multiplication table? I understand its highly dependent on the individual but I'm wondering if 6 years is too young too start if they are not overly fascinated with numbers.
Her next step in math is to really memorize those numbers so we can move on to multi digit multiplication and long division and her learning style is not like my DS, who learned them pretty much effortlessly at 7.5 years. She is very much the opposite of him and detests repetitive rote learning.
She is very self directed and has issues with me teaching her so I don't want to set the explosives off, but on the other hand, she will likely be in 3rd grade math next year in school and fast recall will be expected.
Can you direct me to any sites, games etc to help aid in memorizing these? TIA!
I first introduced the concept to DS when he was in kindergarten and he could figure out answers to problems by skip counting/adding, like 4X8 is two eights which is 16, and then 16 again, but I didn't try to teach memorization of the facts. His older sister was going into third grade last summer and I knew she would need to know them, so I had her do Big Brainz on the PC. DS was the one who got really into the game and learned the facts (as well as becoming fluent with addition/subtraction on Big Brainz). So he was just over 6 when he learned the facts. I think that if a child doesn't really understand the multiplication concept yet (or has difficulty) it's too early to learn the table. DD is 8 and still has trouble remembering the table, but understands the concept of multiplication easiy, so it just depends on the kid and their strengths/weaknesses as well. DD has some processing/attention issues.
DD learned them right after she turned 8, and DS5 somehow learned almost all of them at the same time (incidental learning? osmosis?). DD has an only slightly above-average memory (if you believe the WISC) and DS seems to have an excellent memory (not yet tested, my observation). DS also seems more mathy than DD (although DD is good at math).
DD also detests rote learning - but she got through it and has been making excellent progress in math since then.
We used Xtra Math - it is simple, not entertaining, but effective for building automaticity of simple math facts.
My kids both loved the School House Rock songs/video's. We had a DVD but you can find them on you-tube these days. I found while driving, was a good time to practice the times tables.
I don't think 6 is too young for a kid who enjoys math and already understand multiplication.
Aiden started wanting to learn them at 5, but we had the whole leaving school and therapy debacle. Then he refused to memorise anything. So I got him a little workbook called "making friends with numbers" from the guys who publish LOF (ztwist). It is awesome and he has learnt all his multiplication facts without realising it and without any rote memorisation. and the ones he is still shaky on he can work out from the stuff he knows well.
This book is child-led (even has a big disclaimer on the frong about its not for parents or teachers to mark) and it takes them through from multiplying by 10 (easy add a 0) all the way through squares, area, and ends at fractions. I check the book when he sleeps - he calls it Dessert Maths.
so in a round about way to answer your question - I don't think 6 is too young at all.
Thanks for your tips! Thanks for the link Zen Scanner, I will check it out. I am a very auditory sequential learner so I am doing lots of reading on visual learning (very much DH and probably DD). Thank you!
She understood the concept of multiplication and division very early on, seemingly without instruction but I tried getting her to "memorize" the table and she threw the placemat I bought her in the trash
She loves the school house rock songs, but when she sniffed out what I was trying to get accomplish, she isn't so eager to watch them anymore.
Thanks Blackcat, Loy58, I will check those site/games out.
Zens link is exactly how we went about it. We really had no problem with memorization it just seemed to be the logical way to do it. It was around 5 when he got it. He still hated the timed tests. Division made him think a bit especially when it got over 10.
If she is 6 and resisting I might not push. She is already ahead of the game, you can keep going without this it will just slow her down on more advanced multiplication. On the other hand just using the more advanced math might be all she needs to "memorize" them.
DS4 has them memorized...or at least, calculates them fast enough that it's basically the same? But he never "sat down to memorize"...he just loves numbers and has been skip counting since 2 (that's how he started figuring out multiplication in the first place). I think, personally, the more they explore calculations, the more it will become intuitive. Understand the concept first, be able to calculate it, and then eventually you will start memorizing them from experience. Then again, DS breathes math, so I might be coming from a slightly skewed perspective? I suppose If a child wasn't interested in doing math for fun, I could see how memorizing the tables would be necessary...but not necessarily at 6, if she isn't really feeling it. So I wouldn't push it. Just expose her to the concept and see how her interest develops - you never know, she might suddenly catch on like lightning!
Thanks everyone for the advice! Downloaded big brainz (I knew I it sounded familiar..read about how great it was sometime ago - thanks again) and found that link for learning the tables for visual spatial learners very interesting. Will definitely try it.
So here is our situation: We had the first real sit-down meeting with principal regarding subject acceleration for next year. DD and I covered 2nd grade very quickly as its mostly higher place values and the like and she is ready for 3rd grade math. She understands some 3rd grade concepts such as equivalent fractions and multiplication and division. However, she won't be placed in 3rd grade math if she is unable to master these over the summer. Bearing in mind she really pushes back with repetitive busy work I am concerned with her being placed in 2nd grade math and not progressing.
We really haven't enriched her at all at home prior to her starting kinder because quite frankly, we were more concerned with her inability to conform to her pre-k classrooms (frequent trips to table for speaking out of turn, not staying on task) and thought if she was too ahead, it would make the situation worse. When my older DS attended Kinder, the kiddos would get behavior tickets everyday. I remember one particularly bright boy constantly getting the bad tickets and it really broke his spirit. I never saw him smile; he looked miserable. His mom took him out after kinder ended and put him in private school. Getting DD tested recently has revealed how wrong our thinking was (HG+) and the need to advocate for appropriate placement asap. I don't want to push her..yes, she's only 6, but feel so conflicted! What would you do?
Aiden started wanting to learn them at 5, but we had the whole leaving school and therapy debacle. Then he refused to memorise anything. So I got him a little workbook called "making friends with numbers" from the guys who publish LOF (ztwist). It is awesome and he has learnt all his multiplication facts without realising it and without any rote memorisation. and the ones he is still shaky on he can work out from the stuff he knows well.
This book is child-led (even has a big disclaimer on the frong about its not for parents or teachers to mark) and it takes them through from multiplying by 10 (easy add a 0) all the way through squares, area, and ends at fractions. I check the book when he sleeps - he calls it Dessert Maths.
so in a round about way to answer your question - I don't think 6 is too young at all.
Thanks Madoosa, the books sounds intriguing - will check it out!
So here is our situation: We had the first real sit-down meeting with principal regarding subject acceleration for next year. DD and I covered 2nd grade very quickly as its mostly higher place values and the like and she is ready for 3rd grade math. She understands some 3rd grade concepts such as equivalent fractions and multiplication and division. However, she won't be placed in 3rd grade math if she is unable to master these over the summer. Bearing in mind she really pushes back with repetitive busy work I am concerned with her being placed in 2nd grade math and not progressing.
We really haven't enriched her at all at home prior to her starting kinder because quite frankly, we were more concerned with her inability to conform to her pre-k classrooms (frequent trips to table for speaking out of turn, not staying on task) and thought if she was too ahead, it would make the situation worse. When my older DS attended Kinder, the kiddos would get behavior tickets everyday. I remember one particularly bright boy constantly getting the bad tickets and it really broke his spirit. I never saw him smile; he looked miserable. His mom took him out after kinder ended and put him in private school. Getting DD tested recently has revealed how wrong our thinking was (HG+) and the need to advocate for appropriate placement asap. I don't want to push her..yes, she's only 6, but feel so conflicted! What would you do?
So let me get this straight - she has to master the skills they teach in 3rd grade in order to be allowed into 3rd grade maths? Do they require ALL kids moving in to 3rd grade to show the same mastery before starting the school year??
In terms of your other question - Appropriate placement as a holistic thing is essential to high ability kids IMO. Otherwise you really do slowly watch them slide backwards and the light fade from their eyes. I said to a friend just last night that it's like expecting a cheetah to get excited when offered a daily walk.
Advocate successfully, find a school that will accommodate or homeschool really seem to be the summation of our options. Best of luck making the right choices - it's not always easy, regardless of the path you choose. It is, however, always worth it to see our kids not just surviving but thriving - flourishing as they stretch themselves and become all that they can be.
DS memorized the multiplication table when he was six. He had been multiplying for about a year, but wanted to learn long multiplication. We used a combination of flashcards and iPad apps and games. The games were key for removing the tedium. As an aside, I had DS thinking about division in tandem with multiplication- so he was able to complete both long multiplication and long division this fall and winter. It was much more efficient.
My younger one started learning multiplication when he was around 6 and has mastered it in a few months I think. by 7 he could recall them very well until 12 times. He used Timezattack, IXL, Khan academy and Xtramath as and when he pleased. Never actually completed any of the programs to be honest. My older one tho is a whole different story he is my Visual-Spatial kid - it was a huge struggle with those darned timed tests at school. Even to this day I do not think he has actually memorized them - he just skip counts really quickly or adds them in his head rapidly. I still see him do something with his fingers when multiplying but it is quick and gets the job done. Good Luck!
My DS8 learned them at the beginning of this school year at 7 years old. He grade skipped and is in 3rd grade this year. He is PG in quantitative reasoning but doesn't do very well at memorizing facts. Two things helped him. First, my DH sat down with him and they drew the 12 x 12 chart and filled in the easy ones first (eg. multiples of 2, 5, 10) and then they talked through the rest of it while filling it in. Second, the Squeebles Times Tables ipad app helped tremendously.
DS loved playing with that - it made multiplication into a game...we would take turns picking a tile for the other person, and if you got the answer right, you got to keep the tile. Person with the most tiles at the end wins.
Also, I have no idea if this is a thing or not, but the fact that they are color-coded might help with the memorization if you have a strongly visual kid.
Oh my gosh - this is great!!!!! We only recently got our daughter's IQ scores and her strongest section was "visual spatial". No wonder DD goes crazy mad about multiplication basic facts!!! And I could not figure out why a child who is supposedly so smart could not remember 7 X 8! DD says that she "hates" math just like the article yet says that some math is "not math" so she loves it. I bet it's geometry (I need to see exactly what the AIG teacher is doing). Very helpful!!!
well I downloaded the timez attack pc game and DD was really eager to start it and got through the pretest but was nervous at the general feel of the game - dungeons and dark tunnels. She gets frightened easily and still can't watch a lot of disney movies and the like. Then she met the ogre behind the door and that was it, she was too scared!
I really found the link for multiplication tables for visual learners helpful. I will try that also. Meanwhile are there any other fun games for this purpose?
Thanks so much Madoosa! Aha - chose the wrong venue! Will explore the palace this time.
Thanks for link as well, will check it out!
Oh and I forgot to reply to your comment earlier in the thread. Yes, they like incoming 3rd graders to learn those over the summer and want her to be fluent before they will consider placing her in 3rd grade math.
DD is 8.5 and has been skip counting for ages, but she's never had the patience to actually memorize multiplication facts intentionally. A few months ago I picked up an iPad app called Mathtopia that was recommended to me, and it's worked great as for math facts learning. It's sort of like those jewels games, only you have to do math facts to get jewels. Tip: you can set up profiles for each user, but we didn't notice until DD had played it awhile and she was Not Happy when I had to setup profiles so both kids could play, because then she had to start over.
To me an appropriate placement in a maths class means you can pass the year before but only some of the year you are in. If you can pass 3rd grade then the appropriate placement is 4th not 3rd otherwise she still doesn't get to learn anything, is miserable, plays up,and they say she is too young.
Another vote for bigbrainz.com. DS8 hates math facts tests. He understands the concept but it takes him too long to...well, process it and write down the answer. He LOVES this software though. Last night, he was slamming through it and yelling out the answers with a "Take that!"
The game waits for an answer but only for so long before it moves on to another problem. That does frustrate DS who often has the answer just after time runs out; I remind him that this is just a game to help him practice and that seems to help. Overall, a big thumbs-up from DS8!
I wanted to update this thread - finally achieved success with memorizing multiplication facts.
So many of you had great suggestions. Unfortunately none of them really peaked DD's interest. She got over her fright of bigbrainz but the timing issue was causing meltdowns so we stopped that too.
Meanwhile in school, she was grouped with the kiddos who have their multiplication facts down (1st grade), which got her interested in memorizing them again. I heard about "Timestales" from another forum and it's amazing..it worked!! It uses the mnemonic memory method. http://www.amazon.com/Times-Tales-D...7953&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=times+tales
She watched it last week and by the next day she had memorized her upper multi. facts and recall is getting quicker by the day.
I highly recommend the book we used this summer when DD turned 7. She has better verbal skills so when I stumbled across this book I had to try it. she devoured the book in about 20 min the first day. we left it alone for a month or so then spent about 5 min on it for 5 days in a row to review and she knows them pretty well now. Prior to this she knew some and she understood the concept but in less than an hour she learned up through 10x10. The book assigns each number a picture and then makes up a story that combines the three numbers. One of my daughters favorite is 2 x 8 which is shoe x skate and the story is something about a queen that wanted to skate but only had one skate and one shoe and so she just went in circles and became "sick queen" which sounds like sixteen. They have a picture too which helps solidify the story. Its great for this type of learner.
We tried the big brainz which I think would help alot for speed but my DD was completely freaked out with the giant and froze under the time pressure. Hopefully she will be able to do it when a little older as I think it is a good way to pick up speed.
Oh, I almost forgot to list the book we used:
Memorize in Minutes: The Times Tables, Teaching Manual Paperback – July 15, 2000 by Alan Walker
I highly recommend the book we used this summer when DD turned 7. She has better verbal skills so when I stumbled across this book I had to try it. she devoured the book in about 20 min the first day. we left it alone for a month or so then spent about 5 min on it for 5 days in a row to review and she knows them pretty well now. Prior to this she knew some and she understood the concept but in less than an hour she learned up through 10x10. The book assigns each number a picture and then makes up a story that combines the three numbers. One of my daughters favorite is 2 x 8 which is shoe x skate and the story is something about a queen that wanted to skate but only had one skate and one shoe and so she just went in circles and became "sick queen" which sounds like sixteen. They have a picture too which helps solidify the story. Its great for this type of learner. ...Memorize in Minutes: The Times Tables, Teaching Manual Paperback – July 15, 2000 by Alan Walker
We found it on amazon
As a mathematician I have to say that this approach is absolutely appalling.
As a mathematician I have to say that this approach is absolutely appalling. [/quote]
Can you give some feedback as to why you feel this way? These methods aren't sound for teaching the foundation of multiplication, sure, but for memorizing..well I don't see how it differs from rote practice whatever method you use, flashcards, games, chanting, etc. It would be helpful to explain the reasoning behind your comment. In our case, using this method has worked and finally we have moved onto long division and multiplication.
Let me come back with a question. Why would anyone imagine that multiplication tables are something to be memorized? How about knowing and understanding them instead? They are interwoven with all kinds of patterns. Why miss all that?
Let me come back with a question. Why would anyone imagine that multiplication tables are something to be memorized? How about knowing and understanding them instead? They are interwoven with all kinds of patterns. Why miss all that?
I don't see why it has to be a binary proposition. It seems to me that the child should first be given a conceptual basis for understanding what, exactly, multiplication is. Then, as the children are being asked to learn individual multiples, discussion of the patterns presented is valuable.
The final step should be demonstrating mastery of the tables through memorization for speed and fluency purposes, which will be tested shortly, when multi-digit multiplication and long division are explored, then moving on into decimals, conversions of fractions to decimals, etc. The child who hasn't memorized their tables by this point will come across as "slow," or "not mathy," with all the consequences that entails. On the other hand, the child who has memorized them will not be wasting unnecessary brain power on many simple operations during this stage, will therefore learn more about the bigger concepts, and will enjoy this stage of math much more.
I have seen children flailing and failing in middle school math primarily because they never learned their multiplication tables in third grade.
How very timely (haha). DD5 has just started her "exes" at school. Somehow, all of the other kids in her class (except for one other girl) apparently already know their "exes". Wow. Holy heck. OK. So I thought perhaps I should teach dd5? I have been using a combination of the following, and it seems to be going well -
1) MathUSee skip counting songs. Gotta start somewhere. For some reason my kids have found these easier to sing along with than the School House rock ones.
2) Little games that look like this: (this is not us - just a video I found online)
- right now she uses legos to complete her math homework which consists of sheets of multiplication problems (both word problems and straight multiplication problems). At least she is completing it herself - I don't know how else she would do it.
3) Mom pestering them at snack time, on the way to school, while putting on PJ's - What's 6 times 3, 6 times 7, 6 times 2....I think I will try to focus on one set every day or two until they have them down.
On one hand, I can't believe my littlest one is learning multiplication facts - on the other hand, I am really looking forward to the end of the "math facts" learning era... it is like getting your kid out of diapers...
Let me come back with a question. Why would anyone imagine that multiplication tables are something to be memorized? How about knowing and understanding them instead? They are interwoven with all kinds of patterns. Why miss all that?
I don't see why it has to be a binary proposition. It seems to me that the child should first be given a conceptual basis for understanding what, exactly, multiplication is. Then, as the children are being asked to learn individual multiples, discussion of the patterns presented is valuable.
The final step should be demonstrating mastery of the tables through memorization for speed and fluency purposes, which will be tested shortly, when multi-digit multiplication and long division are explored, then moving on into decimals, conversions of fractions to decimals, etc. The child who hasn't memorized their tables by this point will come across as "slow," or "not mathy," with all the consequences that entails. On the other hand, the child who has memorized them will not be wasting unnecessary brain power on many simple operations during this stage, will therefore learn more about the bigger concepts, and will enjoy this stage of math much more.
I have seen children flailing and failing in middle school math primarily because they never learned their multiplication tables in third grade.
ITA, in fact DD is distracted by the patterns which she finds fascinating but slows the process of spitting them out in class. She also wants to move on to more complex operations but was getting sidetracked by having to calculate the product in her head. I advocated for DD to be in the math group learning 3rd grade concepts but she was not as fluent as some others in multiplication facts which makes convincing the teacher that the placement is appropriate difficult indeed.
Kids should understand the multiplication tables, but memorizing is also useful, and in certain cases, we memorize math facts before we understand them. What about calculating the area of a circle? I think we all memorized this one before we understood it...at least I didn't understand the Calculus behind the area formula when I was 10 or 11.
I'm sure no one here actually figures out multiplication for each and every problem they encounter with the understanding method, though I agree that understanding is key to building on math knowledge.
I'm sure no one here actually figures out multiplication for each and every problem they encounter with the understanding method, though I agree that understanding is key to building on math knowledge.
A mathy kid will go through process of figuring out the multiplication facts, and will understand what they're doing, but after a while these facts will also become available to instant recall. The point is, this process is profoundly different to resorting to an arbitrary collection of gimmicky memorization tricks. The latter is highly undesirable, though I can see there could be pragmatic/desperation reasons for doing it. I would think it would be better that if one couldn't reliably recall the basic 1-digit arithmetic facts, then they move on to learning multidigit arithmetic with a printout of the 1-digit facts to refer to as needed.
Just to say I'm with 22B on this (though with the caveat that I have little experience with less mathy children); it seems to me far better for learning to use a crib sheet until its contents have been internalised than to use irrelevant mnemonics for maths facts, if those are the choices. Irrelevant mnemonics might get you through a test at a cost of long-term distraction.
Better, have relevant mnemonics, e.g., if squares are fine but 7x8 is a problem, know to take 7x7 and add one more 7. Most of my own facts feel less like things I know than like things I know how to work out really, really slickly. Dunno what fMRI would show!
Sorry for happening by this thread a bit late! I have a 9 yo who doesn't know all of his times tables yet by rote. We're working on it, though. Once I showed him how convenient knowing them all was for long division, he saw an actual use for just knowing them because it gets the problem done faster.
I am curious as above the Memorize in Minutes actually piqued my interest. I recently watched a show - Redesign my Brain - which used that type of technique for memorizing playing cards and remembering people. (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/redesign-my-brain-with-todd-sampson/)
Visualization, semantic encoding, memory castles, etc. are great for memorizing sequential primarily disconnected information. They are effective for that purpose. Ideally math isn't disconnected. Math works best integrated. Numerical patterns work extra math skills and their usefulness reoccur outside of just say solving timed times tables. Discovering that adding the digits of a number divisible by nine gives a number that is also divisible by nine has more uses than the image of a basketball star surfing on a pizza box.
One of the old MOEMs problems that my son was looking at was: What is the remainder of 111,111 divided by 27.
If the go-to skill is memorized multiplication tables, the path to the answer may be slow grinding. With some of the patterns a kid may discover in exploring multiplication, this can be much quicker. And these skills continually to build and diversify with more multiplication problems.
With either path the end result is automaticity. On one of the paths there are also tons of other patterns, methods, and insights earned.
I suppose I can see how a mathematician would cringe at this method. My DD already understands the concept quite well and was pretty good at picking up on patterns to help her figure it out also. How many children learn multiplication tables by flash cards, songs or other rote memorization. I just knew that this was something that my DD would love because it is verbal, visual and silly and it would give her confidence and boost her automaticity with little effort. I don't really think that this or any of the other memorization methods comes at the cost of exploring patterns and developing additional math skills. Then again perhaps if she is trying to remember the answer to 9 x 7 for example, maybe she will fall back on trying to remember the story rather than working with the numbers. I don't know. I don't expect her to mind to go from question to story to answer much at this point. It just seemed to be one additional way to connect the numbers and she just seems to know them now without thinking about it. You have started me thinking though. My daughters school math is mind numbing repetition of the same nearly identical worksheets for the past 6 weeks. Clearly she is not exploring anything of use there. I was hoping that increasing fluency with math facts would help open up new options for her but perhaps I need to think of more than advancing her into more appropriate material. There is a lot of exploration she could do with a little encouragement.
Visualization, semantic encoding, memory castles, etc. are great for memorizing sequential primarily disconnected information. They are effective for that purpose. Ideally math isn't disconnected. Math works best integrated. Numerical patterns work extra math skills and their usefulness reoccur outside of just say solving timed times tables. Discovering that adding the digits of a number divisible by nine gives a number that is also divisible by nine has more uses than the image of a basketball star surfing on a pizza box.
One of the old MOEMs problems that my son was looking at was: What is the remainder of 111,111 divided by 27.
If the go-to skill is memorized multiplication tables, the path to the answer may be slow grinding. With some of the patterns a kid may discover in exploring multiplication, this can be much quicker. And these skills continually to build and diversify with more multiplication problems.
With either path the end result is automaticity. On one of the paths there are also tons of other patterns, methods, and insights earned.
I can't help but wonder if that was 111,111 divided by 37 instead.
Knowing MOEMs It would have been 37. Make you do all the work for nothing.
It all depend on where you are at in learning. If you are memorizing the Presidents or State or digits of Pi then a little song would be fine. If you are doing it for math facts you need to quickly see the patterns and properties. You can usually go far just using a simple table show them some patterns and let them discover some of their own.
So to OP. My ds was probably around 5 when he got his multiplication facts down 0-10. Division tripped him up for a bit on recall. He loved doing worksheets. He would make a big multiplication Table outline in sidewalk chalk on the drive way and fill it in before he knew what it actually was.
I haven't read all the posts so not sure this has been mentioned but DS, now 6, learned it through the Rock n' Learn multiplication CD's at 4 1/2. He loved the music and we played it in the car. He was obsessed with numbers and this was a way to satisfy his "number needs" :-)
