Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Mixed feelings - playing hardball with my daughter

Wow, this really triggered some people's buttons.

A few clarifications:

- Hanni has never voiced a feeling that it's "unfair." In fact, when I told her we'd be doing some homework over break, her reaction was along the lines of "Okay, cool!" We're very fortunate that she's not in a school with a culture of hating schoolwork.

- I don't really consider arithmetic to be the apex of intellectual fun. It's a skill you have to learn to get to the fun stuff, and yeah, learning it is work. I consider this "learning the basics" to be very different from all the other learning that goes on in our house, which is pretty much endless. This is a kid with insights into science, history, and literature that, at a rough guess, I would say are at least a 6th grade level. I'm totally happy to unschool these topics, because this is where deep intellectual play really happens.

- Several of you are concerned that by asking her to do math practice according to my time-frame, I'm going to destroy her enjoyment. Really no signs of that happening so far. In fact, she is getting a total kick out of her increasing math skills, when she's not battling me. The point I'm trying to make here (and have been trying to make from the beginning) is that there is a total disconnect with this kid between how hard she fights me about something and what she really wants or doesn't want or likes or hates.

- Learning self-discipline is a very difficult thing and a long road. I don't believe that you can toss kids into the deep end of this particular pool and expect them to figure it out. (From my own experience, my parents insisted on academic rigor, but let us be in charge of the state of our own rooms. I've turned out as a passionate academic who has serious problems figuring out how to keep my house clean.) I believe in starting the process with baby steps, in which the child is given an incentive structure that gets them to do the behavior, and then they discover that they *are* capable of making themselves do X, when they decide to. Then you gradually move the goal-posts as they get older. I have absolutely no interest in teaching obedience for obedience's sake.

- "you risk your disciplinarian role displacing your being a happy shelter for Hanni." Really not a problem here. Thanks for your concern.

- Why would I want to keep the momentum going over the summer? I guess I would turn that around ask, why wouldn't you? The idea that spending an entire 1/4th of the year without learning is somehow both an entitlement and a mental neccessity is engrained in us from our own childhoods, but it's a by-product of our agricultural past. There's really nothing natural or neccessary about it.

- Why would I "push" my kid to do more than is being required by the school? Because she is ready for it. And because, as wonderful as this school is and as nimble as they are, they're still not quite managing to get out in front of her. I will also confess to one ulterior motive here: I want her to be showing her stuff clearly by the start of Fall so that they place her in the 1st-2nd classroom, not the K-1st room again. She would wilt there. She is already complaining to me that the older groups get to all the fun stuff -- by which she means the more complicated science, the book-writing projects, etc.

So, I want to say that I understand what it's like to post a thread and have everyone kinda pile on and disagree with you. It's not so fun. You did post, though, and you did express that you had mixed feelings, so you sort of put yourself out there for comment. I *was* going to ask about your goals, actually, and this


is quite understandable. I want my DS5 to have some stuff down before fall as well for similar reasons. However, you did seem a little...I don't know, like maybe it might be helpful to get some perspective. It can be really helpful to hear from parents who have older kids of similar personalities.

also, I guess I only have my two kids, but I am a super big believer in strewing the path richly (books, educational materials all around; intro them to interesting/educational computer stuff, offer to play games that you think are enriching, ask them about their interests and enable those), limiting screentime, and letting them find what they need. They do.

If you think she needs to achieve a few specific goals for next year to work out well, why not figure out what they are, tell her about them, and then set up a reward system of some kind? Most kids (not all!!) do respond to this. If I do Handwriting without Tears with DS this summer (not sure if I will), I'll do something like this--"15 minutes of this and then we'll play Othello" (which he loves), or whatever. But don't get caught in "She must just constantly be/learn/know moremoremore...because look at that potential!" all the time, if she is not reaching for it. BTDT a little myself.

On the bright side, the feedback of the folks here on the forum who took time to respond with their own experiences and insight seems to have helped you clarify your own feelings and position on something you were struggling with. That is always a good thing,

Like you, I afterschool my son. He knows that it is required if he wants to go to school (otherwise we'd homeschool). I have two categories of work that we do. One is conversational on the couch. For example, I read history and science stuff aloud. We are also reading Life of Fred aloud. That sort of thing. The other category is things that don't lend themselves well to a conversation on the couch. At the moment it is grammar. I'm having him go though an 8th grade grammar book (he is 5th grade age) because his school doesn't teach English (at all). I'm giving him a big reward when he finishes it, which won't be until sometime in the summer.

So, I guess one thing you might consider is to make the afterschooling stuff be time spent with you rather than on the computer. If it's math, use a small whiteboard and write for her--make it a conversation. I know that my son is much more inclined to do extra schoolwork if it's with me and not just computer stuff or a bunch of workbook pages.

MegMeg, there was a thread posted a few weeks ago discussing extrinsic versus intrinsic motivators in study habits that you might find pertinent, if you haven't already seen it. I'll see if I can dig it up, as it might help you streamline your strategy.

MegMeg - I sometimes have this with Aiden, and I agree that it is SO frustrating - esp when you KNOW it's something they WANT to do, usually love doing and when they are into it cannot get enough of it and usually moan and fuss about stopping that activity.

Since January this year Aiden has been like this, and since we homeschool it's most days that we have this issue. So I decided to change the tactics.

I don't want to bribe, I don't want to dangle carrots, I don't want to yell, scream, punish, prevent stuff etc. Because it is simply not worth it - esp when I have 2 younger kids watching the emotional playoffs. Meh.

So instead I sat him down. Asked what he wanted to achieve/do and we wrote down his own goals. Then I asked him to consider what he needed to do to achieve those. And now I revisit that every two weeks with him. We set goals for the two weeks as to how they fit into a larger goal for him.

And it works because he can see it written on his own chart, he can tick off the little boxes that matter to him and he can feel the fulfillment he gets when he achieves his goals.

It's encouraging the intrinsic desire to learn that was squashed while at pre school before we started homeschooling. And it's like you said - its providing the framework until they are able to do it on their own.

So you know the goal - to help her not be miserable for an entire academic year. So tell her that, ask if she has the same goal and then work with that. That way when she wigs out you can point to the written goal and remind her of what you are working for/to.

best of luck - it's never easy walking the parenting line and even less so when you know how happy they would be if they saw what you see.

No you're not, any more than making them brush their teeth every day makes you a "dental hot housing" parent (lol). The difference is if you were trying to build your DD up beyond her limits, which you're not. From my experience with my DD the push back is about control, which stems from anxiety, which is not related to the academic stimulation they usually enjoy.

I insisted my two do silent reading over our spring break. Meanwhile they were allowed to sleep in and otherwise live lives of leisure. We went to the beach one day, and up the mountain skiing the next.

It actually went really well. I posted "spring break check lists." On them were items like "make your own breakfast" etc. I called this life skills training, because mommy can't follow you around in life and make your breakfast when you're 30. They resisted THIS at first, but were fine with the reading.

What if you gave your DD a list of possible homework activities to choose from and let her decide what to do? You're still maintaining the habit of self discipline, but you're giving her some control.

I can relate here as well. If there's a 4/5 split next year, I want DS8 in that, rather than the straight 4. He's always been more successful staying on task in a more challenging environment, but with his multiple dx & in class attention difficulties this'll be a hard sell unless I get his output up.

DS is only 4.5 so I can't completely relate but knowing his personality (very oppositional too), I wouldn't ask him to do work over the Spring break. 1. he deserves a break too, 2. when other kids talk after the break about all the stuff they did, I am pretty sure someone would make fun of him for doing school work when the rest of them had a break, 3. one week of break is not going to make him forget what he's learned. He is a fast learner so he will be right back to it when the break is over, 4. he's constantly learning "something" ... just might not be based on the school curriculum but walks outside, car ride, store trips, etc. ... he's constantly describing what he sees, what it means to him. It is real lifeskill training so no need for academics.

We will be most likely homeschooling when the Fall comes (Kindergarten) and even then I am planning to focus on school work only to the extent of the grade minimum curriculum and as for the rest, we will guide him in certain directions but will let him choose what he wants to do. He spends a lot of time on ABCMouse, Starfall, Dreambox, PBSplay ... he sees all that as "games" but we know he's learning and he does it all voluntarily.

I can see why you would want to get more done given your goals for the Fall but maybe I'd do a real Spring break without homework and then do an extra 5 minutes a day when the break is over?