Originally Posted by suevv
Likewise for DS - he didn't "choose" to act out when he got overwhelmed, frustrated, whatever rose out of his 2e challenges. Any discipline that assumes he did is doomed to fail.

DS's teacher got a glimpse of this the other day. She sent me an email saying she wanted DS to help put together a good consequence. He suggested something very extreme - really an unconnected punishment. She said "but the consequence is to help you stop behavior." She said he looked totally shocked at the idea and said - "but it can't. I didn't mean to do it." The teacher was sincerely baffled. But honestly, I think she still thinks he's making "bad choices."
Oh suevv, having a flashback, here. The most obnoxious communication I ever had with a teacher (on my part, anyhow) is when DS was in fourth grade and I received some email about his "bad choices" and I just lost my cool. I said something about this being inappropriate language and that nobody would accuse a child with seizures of choosing to have a seizure in class, so why would we use this language with a child with ADHD demonstrating poor impulse control. It was not my proudest moment. They stop using that gawdawful "choices" language so much, over time, thank goodness.

DeeDee, agree, DS here is really really bad at lying. Comically so. However, sometimes I pretend like I believe him (even when I don't) just because I'm so blasted tired that I want to hang out in denial for an evening.

Now at nearly 13, I see that he is becoming more likely to lie in an "antisocial" way than an avoidant way, at times--as in, the way a neurotypical teen would lie. This is twisted--but in a way, I'm glad. Even though I really hate dishonesty, it seems (relatively) developmentally appropriate and it demonstrates some level of savvy that I wasn't sure he was capable of. I was also pleasantly surprised when he was rudely, offensively, and hurtfully "embarrassed" by my "hovering" at his last school social event where I was chaperoning. He wanted me to stay away from him and leave him alone! And he was snotty about it! How ridiculous that this pleased me, even though it also did hurt my feelings. This parenting a child with social issues is a fun-house mirror, isn't it?

Suevv--your DS sounds so familiar to me. I'm so glad he has a mom like you in his corner. It's surprising how many parents don't seem to know or care about taking the time to understand their kids. I see this in my work, frequently, and it makes me sad.