Originally Posted by Wren
A lot of IQ kids going through gifted programs may have nothing to say but high grades. At least that is what Yale admissions is saying about applicants these days.
I'd agree with you statement that IQ scores at five are likely to change over time. I don't think that IQ is set in stone nor do I think that it is a precise or perfect measurement of who is gifted. I do think that it is probably the best measure we have right now, though, b/c it doesn't just look for convergent fast answers the way multiple choice group tests do. IQ tests are also less subject to hothousing of scores b/c the actual questions are a bit better protected than are group test questions which, as I've mentioned, are often taught to by some teachers and some parents and given repeatedly until the requisite score are obtained (at least in some of my local schools).

That said, I disagree with the notion that what Yale admissions is seeing is large numbers of truly gifted/high IQ kids who have nothing to offer but high grades. I think that what they are seeing is exactly what I fear NAGC is now going to cater to: high achieving, in the box thinking, not truly gifted kids who are called gifted, tracked into GT programming, and come out of it with nothing to offer but high grades and convergent thoughts. That's pretty much what the preponderance of the kids in our local GT programs look like already and it isn't where I think GT needs to stray further.

I am not seeking narrowing the definition of gifted b/c I want to be elitist but b/c, the further a child strays from the norm, the more his needs are less likely to be met in a grouping that includes 10, 15, 20% or more of the population. Honestly, in programs that include numbers like this, what I've seen is that probably 40-50% of the population could easily be in this "gifted" grouping with appropriate circumstances. It doesn't take above average intelligence; what it takes is a combo of average or slightly above intelligence, parental involvement, and motivation on the behalf of the teachers and the students.

Gifted isn't a special need when you define it this way and that makes it all that much more elitist b/c it is subject to parental pride, pressure, and arrogance moreso than a qualitative difference in wiring that had little to do with what a great parent I am and how much better my child is.