How and when did you discuss with your gifties the whole sex thing?

Let me share my dilemma - because everyone else thinks that I am making it up, he is too young, and clearly cannot understand this, let alone ask about it.

Aiden is 4, and has asked about how babies get into mom's tummy. He knows that moms have eggs, and that dads have special liquid that mixes with the eggs and starts a baby, but he has very specifically asked how the dad gets the liquid to the eggs.

Is he too young? should I do the scientific/biological approach only? anyone got any book ideas I can share with him? any advice?

He's absolutely not too young (and IMHO this is so regardless of giftedness). A book DS loved at that kind of age is the - hilarious, but positive, frank and conversation-provoking -
Mummy [or Mommy, depending on which edition you buy!] Laid an Egg

I think whenever a kid asks is when s/he is old enough to be told the truth. My son is 8 and just asked for details this year. We told him about the egg several years ago...but it took him this long to think to ask how it actually gets fertilized. I took the opportunity to discuss condoms (I called them a special cover) as a necessity when he is old enough. That got into a whole discussion of whether it was a law to wear a condom (should be, ha ha) and I said no, but it is my law for you!

So we are doing it a little at a time. There is no big talk, no major discussion, just me answering questions as they come up.

I'll disagree and say he IS too young.

My DD6 is aware that parts of the mommy and daddy mix together to produce a baby. And since her aunt had just delivered a little girl and she had expressed concern over her aunt's belly being torn, I did inform her that the baby comes out of the mom's pee-pee.

Further questions are typically deflected with, "You're not ready to learn about that yet, we'll talk about that when the time is right." Since we're typically very good about answering her questions, she accepts that.

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Stork-Families-Friends/dp/0763633313/ref=pd_sim_b7 This is part of a longer series of books. It is recommended for ages 4-8 - big span and of course it will depend on the family. This is not a book for people who prefer to avoid giving their kids information, but if you are comfortable with biological information we found this series to be a good one.

Opinions will vary but I come down strongly on the side of providing information. Sex is an important part of life. Being evasive can give kids the message that sex is something that is shameful and that you aren't a reliable source of information. Too many kids rely on peers (or the Internet) for information and when that happens you've lost the opportunity to be a source of influence. If you want your fourteen year old to talk to you - answer your four year old's questions.

There can be real problems when kids only know euphemisms for body parts. It makes it difficult for them to communicate accurately when they are having a pain or another physical problem to ask for help.

My son had been sort of skirting around the question for a while about the time he turned five.

At a trip to the zoo, I pointed out a coupe of turtles that were mating. I took the opportunity right then and there, and it was very easy and non-embarrassing. I pointed out that all mammals, bird and reptiles mate this way.

Last week we saw some butterflies mating, and I had the same conversation with DD5. She could not have been less interested.

Anyone have ideas on how you explain things and also suggest they do not explore this...?

Seriously, can't you imagine telling a young child how the sperm gets to the egg and in a playdate these little kids start experimenting?

One of my friends in high school tried to model some porn film he found (and viewed) with one of his female friends when he was five or so.

So, it does happen.

One of the strangest stories someone's ever related to me, to tell you the truth.

Yeah, these kids are going to experiment with what they know whenever they know it. If they're missing a vital piece of information, it means the experiment will not be a complete success... which is kinda the point. Ignorance is a form of protection, until their judgement has advanced to the point where they will (hopefully) make better decisions. You simply cannot expect a child of that age to think through the potential consequences.

Besides, until the hormones take over, kids are pretty much non-sexual beings, and we should let them enjoy that for a little while. Sex complicates everything.

Apparently, the whole "<opposite genders> are ICKY!" phase of development has already vanished, because my daughter reports first-graders habitually kissing on campus. Not a surprising development, when kids are being bombarded by sexualized messages. So when a parent says, "You're not ready for this," that's a good counter-argument to what the culture is telling them. It says slow down, all in due time, and for now just enjoy being a kid.

Honestly, I can't imagine it, no, but maybe that's just my little kid! I've always talked about it as a thing grown up people do. More generally, while in our house we're quite comfortable with nudity, we make explicit the point that some parts of the body are more private than others, and that it's not right for anyone to touch a private part of someone else, or touch someone with one of theirs, unless they're sure both people are completely comfortable with it. I think this is important to make clear to maximise the chance that if anyone tries to abuse your child sexually, the child knows that what's being done is definitely wrong. I also think it has a role in discouraging exploration - or at any rate, any exploration I'd worry about!

I have also had the experience, now partially erased from my memory, of DS then aged ?5? asking very loudly in a restaurant lavatory "How do people catch AIDS Mummy?" Yes, I explained.

I have an academic book on my shelf entitled Child Sexuality. One of the most interesting papers in it is, if I remember rightly, a comparative study of adult attitudes to children's sexuality done in the US and in the Netherlands. You just exemplified what they found: American adults insist desperately that there's no such thing as childhood sexuality. Hint: the rest of the book is about this non-existent thing :-)

Pretty much all the research shows the opposite. When parents talk to kids about sex these kids are more likely to postpone sexual activity and to behave more responsibly when they are sexually active.

When you refuse to answer a child's questions it doesn't make a child less curious or less likely to have questions. If anything, it may increase the child's curiosity because you are acting secretive. Kids will still seek out other sources of information - it might be inaccurate information from friends or from wildly inappropriate information and images found online.

To me it seems silly to suggest that young children can't understand the basics of reproduction. Kids on farms have always had this information and took it simply as a part of life. Many parents here have shared this information with their young kids and didn't find it lead to the kids engaging inappropriate experimentation. Rather it was the beginning of parents establishing that they are reliable sources of information.

Also, I think it is worth a mention of the sad reality that for many people their first sexual contact in life isn't wanted or voluntary. Making sure children have basic information about anatomy, the Internet, and privacy is something that every parent should take seriously. We can't prevent all bad things from happening, but making sure kids know basic information and know they can talk to us is a good place to start.

How babies are made, when she was just over 3, because it had some relevance to her life. She wasn't made in the traditional way, so I think we didn't get to p-in-v until she got It's Not the Stork, and that was when she was 6.5yo.

I don't think that a 4yo is too young. Kids just gloss over a lot of stuff they aren't ready for. DD (who thinks everything sexual is the most disgusting thing she's ever heard) has only in the last 6 months started saying "ewww" to sexual comments on TV / in movies, even though she's been exposed to them longer than that.

Yes, exactly. I find an odd contradiction in some of what is being said here. On the one hand we are hearing kids aren't sexual beings but on the other that with any information they instantly become sex charged demons getting it on during playdates.

thanks have ordered the book.

I do want to answer him the next time he asks, but I want to be able to do it in a factual way. I don't think he is ready for the emotional side of things. I am leaning towards pointing out that it's only something Adults do, preferably married ones with someone that they love and also wants a baby...

Now you're just being ridiculous, because nobody said any such thing.

Ideally these conversations happen in little bits here and there over the years. So, don't worry that you have to cover it all in one shot - you'll do fine.

My older DD was about 6 when we had the conversation on the "mechanics".... she replied, "And people LIKE to do this?"...holding back laughter, I said...not until you are much older! she said, "Oh when I learn to like wine?" lol

Mamabear -

very insightful DD!

Madoosa - That is how I am going to approach it. Like wine/beer, going to work, driving -- some things are for when a person is older/able to make responsible choices/an adult.

- EW

This was a good time to share those books with me. �I was concerned with being embarrassed by him using the correct terms. �Yesterday I visited with a pregnant teenager. �I'm taking to heart what you said PTP, "answer them when they're 4 so they'll talk to you when they're 14". �I just needed a little guidance and research. � I like that the two books recommended here will answer all his questions including peeing and all the details and that one of them explained appropriate and inappropriate places to touch and explains which things are "for later". �I'm sure it's less embarrassing to continue "the talk" over time than suddenly having the talk when it matters. �I was worried. �Now I'm not.
I'm sure a lot of parents will deflect the questions "until you are older". �That's fine. �I wanted to answer his questions already but I just wasn't sure how. �He knows beer, coffee, and driver's liscenses aren't for kids.

I personally think that it's best to find out about these things before you are 11 or 12, which was the time I found out (after elementary school).

I think I was more focused on the physical science, such as cosmology and chemistry, than the life sciences. And it never occurred to my parents to tell me.

My mom was known to hit the bottle a lot when I was kid so she often slurred her words in our evening conversations.

Because of this, for years I thought boys had a "peanuts." And I swear I never saw Charles Schwab's comic in the same light.

I say this is as an example of how NOT to tell your kids.

"Eeeeewwwww!"

"Don't worry, honey, you don't have to do that until you're married."

My dd had the exact same reaction. I explained that it was a little like telling someone the mechanics of eating. Open your mouth, grind your food with your teeth, mixing with saliva, use your tongue.... (you get the point ) We had a good laugh and she got the picture that it's more fun than it sounds.

Don't you have to talk to girls around 7 or 8 anyway because puberty is starting earlier?

I agree very strongly with PTP. DD asked when she was 4, because we had a pregnant friend and it made her start thinking and worrying about being pregnant (the things these kids think of). I explained it without huge detail, but enough and with 'real' words. One question led to another (because of course she wanted to know why she couldn't get pregnant at her age etc, etc) and so we talked about puberty, sex and pregnancy. I described the p - v aspect and ultimately called it a 'special kind of hug' (though I covered why it was different to other kinds of hugs - knowing full well she'd start worrying about 'hugs') and that she will be in control of when it happens (she incidentally, has declared she will never have that kind of hug).

I think it's so important - especially for girls (I know I say that here a lot!) - to understand the real names for their body parts, that their genitals are nothing to be ashamed of and to understand that they own and are in charge of their bodies. You can't empower kids without giving them information.

Here's a link to an Australian Govt web page on talking about sex with young kids, inc the realities of sex education (i.e. "research indicates that children who have a clear understanding of sexual issues are more likely to behave responsibly, for example, waiting until they are older before they start having sex, and choosing to use contraceptives") and how to deal with experimentation:

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Sex_education_preschoolers?open

I attended a lecture years ago about this topic. And one of the things discussed was how to deal with young kids touching themselves in the privates or masturbating. It can start at 1, the latter. And she mentioned talking to them about how it feels good but we do these things in private. So I always used regular names for body parts though it does get into the "bathroom humor" stage.

And someone's analogy about farm kids and animals was well put, but I think there is also peer pressure. Did anyone see an article, it was in a Parent's magazine here, that kids grades -- as they get older -- are reflective of who their peers are, rather than parental influence. Not saying 100% of kids, since some are leaders, but maybe it is the same for sexual experimentation or drugs.

But I do agree that talking with your child early and honestly, as my mother talked to me about sex, not the mechanics, but how it can be pleasureable, but also the consequences as a woman, the pregnancy, being a mother young, and I did not have sex early.

Ren

haha this made me laugh.

thanks everyone - I think I know what to say next time it comes up.

we used It's not the Stork. It actually comes in 3 age level groups. I thought it was neccessary to prepare DD for the upcoming birth of her sister.

I don't think you need to say the actual mechanics. I think at this age, you can sort of "leave a blanket over it" so to speak and give him the "special hug" line...but I also think it's important to not hide the truth from them or act like its a mystery, because these are EXACTLY the kinds of kids that want to solve a mystery. I think you need to give them proper, appropriate vocabulary (we use the correct names for all parts, except breasts, we use bosoms). My girls do say penis and vagina and know that women have three holes. We also stress that these are things to talk about in the bathroom or at home or the doctor's office.

So far, so good!

Another vote for It's Not the Stork and explaining when you're asked. DD asked at 3. DS hasn't asked yet, but he doesn't ask by 5 or so I will tell him.

I really strongly believe in giving kids the truth about this. I don't think it's harmful, whereas NOT knowing can be.

Also, the research on this is in my field, and passthepotatoes is exactly right--study after study shows that TALKING to kids about sex openly and honestly actually protects against risky sexual behavior. Kids do look up to us. They do listen. Even teens.

What's funny is that a lot of the people here advocating for full disclosure are echoing my own position about keeping the mechanics a secret, so apparently we don't disagree nearly as much as it seems on the surface. DD6 already knows that she has different sex organs from a boy, that those differences are relevant to making babies, that both boy and girl bodies change into man/woman bodies during their teenage years, and she's aware of some of the more obvious changes that involves. So information is already flowing.

Her school system talks about sex-ed in 7th grade biology, and I have no intention of waiting until then to talk about these things in more detail. But that's for 10 or 11, not 6.

I think the argument about terminology is silly, though, because "My pee-pee hurts," is functionally equal to "My vagina hurts," and I wouldn't expect her to identify a problem with her ovaries any more than I'd expect an undiagnosed, non-medical professional adult to.

I personally disagree with that, because I'd interpret "my pee-pee hurts" as "I have pain on urination," which is not the same as "my vulva hurts" (likely to be diaper rash or similar), which is not the same as "my vagina hurts" (so improbable that I'd be mentally running down the list of people she'd been around unsupervised).

But plenty of people conflate stomachs and abdomens, so I suspect you're in the majority.

There is a very good chance between age 6 and age 11 someone is going to explain to her how the sperm gets to the egg or at least they will try to. Most kids know, or make up some version of that information if they aren't given the real information. I remember it being pretty common knowledge by third grade and that was preInternet.

And, I have to say time for an anatomy lesson if you think there is one part and it is interchangably described "pee pee" or vagina. The vagina isn't even the part used to pee. It is one thing to use slang, it is another to not even correctly know the number of parts or their function.

Agreed. In my pediatric practice, I get a lot of kids whose MOTHERS have a chief complaint of "her pee-pee hurts." I usually clarify using correct terminology, for that exact reason.

Also, I've had a number of mothers over the years who brought their (usually female) child to my office for the express purpose of having me explain the facts of life to the child. It's always a fun visit. :-)

Can I just say I hope it didn't sound like I didn't explain the mechanics in my 'special hug' explanation - I did. Once I had explained the whole penis/vagina thing I described it as a special kind of hug - because frankly, without some kind of positive spin, the whole sex thing is pretty unappealing when you just describe the mechanics of it. While I'd like her to delay it as long as possible, I don't think she needs to think of sex as a scary thing. And even with a tiny bit of positive spin dd is completely against the whole idea.

I have to say it's time for someone to review her netiquette.

Lol, IMO on a board devoted to education, suggesting that someone who displays (and even more relevantly, proposes that board members promulgate to their children) ignorance of basic facts of X should take a lesson in X is neither off-topic nor impolite, and therefore, not against netiquette.

So the lesson is, don't post a casual, flip comment, because any particular phrase will be interpreted as encompassing the entire breadth and depth of your knowledge about a particular subject. I shall be sure to enclose a doctoral thesis on my next post.

Now, since you've been so helpful, let me help you: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/ubb/boardrules/v/1.html