Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy EG/PG and not accelerated?

I am not so sure.

GT kids can go get books from the library. Look things up. We are steeped in language. Its very accessible.

GT math kids may not be able to process higher math books due to language issues. The math roadmap is not obvious to the uninitiated and the material is vanishingly small in volume compared to most other material.

Most math textbooks outside of upper division college today have a very high noise/signal ratio. I don't think they are appropriate for GT kids. I hated them.

And doing math problems is a much different process from reading a book.

IMHO, a condensed approach stressing Logic and Real Analysis which picks up Geometry, Algebra, Number Theory, Discrete Math, and Calculus along the way might be more appropriate for GT kids who are already very good at arithemetic and who can think conceptually. You could also briefly touch upon other math and non-math advanced subjects along the way.

OH, I so agree. That is why they are so BIG. No wonder even teachers get lost in the material needed to be covered.

I didn't go back and re-read this whole thread, but I think at the time (5 months ago!) I was arguing that *schools* tend to be more willing to ID math-talented kids than language-GT kids and to accomodate them. Maybe insufficiently, but at least with something.

At our local schools, a weekly GT pull-out begins at 4th grade in math only. Language-talented kids get nothing until 6th grade. By 6th grade, the math pull-out has become daily math class for GT kids. It's only weekly for language arts, even in 6th grade.

Is that enough for HG+ math-GT kids? Not hardly! But it's still a heck of a lot more than the school does for the HG+ language-GT kids.

Kriston, I agree with you about the math vs. language arts acceleration. In math, there is a logical succession and it is easier to accelerate. One of the arguments again LA acceleration from our old school was that the books read may not be appropriate material as DD is very sensitive and "immature" for the material. One of them discussed holocaust for example and I agree that a sensitive child may not handle the material well. Schools usually don't have a way to accelerate a LA gifted child.

In our new school DD9 will be with other GT kids and they will accelerate to either 6th or 7th grade LA next year. She will be going to 5th this fall. Since it is a group of younger (9-10 yo) kids, they will take the subject matter into account.

I disagree. Coming from my perspective it was different. I think my child intimidated his teacher in math, as it happened he was able to point out a mistake in the 4th grade math text (it was an unusual circumstance, but it did have an enormous effect). Math acceleration was not possible as the teacher did not feel secure enough, I guess. LA acceleration was offered and it included much more complex weekly readings to be analyzed.
To my dismay those readings consisted of abridged texts and not only my child but myself had trouble getting to the bottom of the problem.
I guess it all really depends on the teacher. But I would make an assumption that most elementary grade teachers feel much more secure in LA than they do in Math.
Having said that I agree that the path in math is much more clear. But is it really the one we should follow with GT kids?

Good point, Ania.

To tell you the truth, I really think both are crummily managed overall, though with pockets of good work some places with some teachers.

What we're doing here is sort of like picking which disease we'd prefer to die of: plague or cancer. Either way, you're still dead.

Kind of a pointless argument, really.

I like the math texts from the 1920s-1940s. I have a great used calculus text from that period that was used at MIT by a deceased engineer. It all his notes in the margins.

I thought about this more last night. One you know the number line, there is no reason to hold back.

Math also has a tactile component to it. Discrete problems are solved by writing them out. In fact, most problems have to be written out. And ideal self-learning program would incorporate a tablet PC, HW recognition SW, plus a human-in-the-loop for discussion.

The math classes I learned the most in followed the Socratic method where we had to put our work up on boards and then we discussed it in turn. Sometimes the instructor would write a problem on the board and then cover it up and then you lifted the paper to reveal it and had to solve it in real-time. After a point, the instructor would lecture M and W and assign problems, and we would self-teach and critique. He or she would then critique methods or propose other lines not covered by the student.

While it may not be feasible to get advanced kids together locally, I can see an online virtual classroom working using the Socratic method to teach more mature students math. Using a projector screen for the class and a tablet PC coupled to a large monitor would be good. You could then record the sessions for the student to play back or for other students to learn from.

I am just thinking aloud!

It does sound good.

May I ask: what is the class? Is this CTY?

WOW! That sounds great!

Heh. Do they admin a Turing test, too?