Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy deterioration; we're at a loss to find solutions

Opinionated??!!

Me?

I don't know what you mean... heehee.

Found this in my trolling:

SENG's Selecting a Mental Health Professional for your Gifted Child

Pretty much exactly what we have been thinking-- and also what all of you have been saying as well. I guess we're all on the same page. It just seems like it might not be the same one that we're on with our local mental health professionals. <sigh>

HowlerKarma, I think your daughter's long-lost twin resides at my house. It's very challenging - teasing out what's "normal" developmentally for them as an outlier, and what's potentially harmful.

I don't know where you are on the west coast, but are you familiar with the Eides? They have a particular interest in giftedness and quirks.

http://www.neurolearning.com/eides.htm

Wow! For the sake of space I won�t quote the whole entry, but you have completely described my DD at that age. She said the same thing. Are you also finding junk-food wrappers stashed in her room? And cereal bowls in drawers?

Now I am really wondering about the numbers we got from our testing, I was told by 3 schools prior to age 11 that my DD tested beyond the 99th percentile across the board so I was totally surprised at her recent test results. But she definitely began a downward spiral at age 11 and it has only just started to get better.

In my DDs case, the school fit was also pretty terrible by that age though (since we had just moved) and she fell into depression. Supposedly the junk food and all night computer use were a sort of self-medication and escape for her.

My DD has now been diagnosed with ADD-inattentive, AS and situational depression (resulting from the frustrations caused by the ADD). So if the dx is right, the ADD did not begin to be a real issue or hinder her performance at school until she hit 7th grade.


Awesome idea LaTexican! I wish I had thought of that!!! My niece just hit 11 and is beginning to follow this path; I think I will suggest that plan to my brother!

I would very strongly encourage you to contact Patricia Gatto-Walden. It would be expensive to travel to see her (to Denver or Florida) but she does phone consults and she gets gifted girls, and has worked extensively with PG teens. If anyone would be able to help and understand how the giftedness plays into what ever is going on it would be her.

For example, she has participated in this camp http://www.educationaladvancement.org/pages/programspages/yunasa.html
for HG/PG kids for many years. I really think it could be a great investment to get her POV on how you can help your dd.

Have you met with multiple people or just to the office staff of this one ADD doctor? I would not discount the ability of local providers to help until you've done a lot more research.

Trying to say this gently...I would encourage caution about not dismissing too many options too quickly. It can be easy when you are feeling worried and protective to believe that nobody will understand or help. That can become self fulfilling prophecy. If you don't like the ADD doctor of course move on, but I would not be dismissive of the possibility that anyone local could help you. An 11 year old sneaking the computer and staying up late... that is hardly a rare problem that only a few could understand.

Also, I don't know if it is reasonable to dismiss anyone who wants to do testing. If you believe that giftedness likely plays some role and seek out people who believe the same many will want to do that sort of assessment. You mentioned concern if the school saw the assessment, but I'm not sure why that's a worry. This is a private assessment right? You aren't obligated to share that information with anyone you don't want to.

I would be wary if the child has learning disabilities. If not, and it is the most accessible option I wouldn't rule it out. Our PG child got good testing from someone who primarily tests disabled children. The testing is standard so it posed no problem. The bigger problem may come in trusting the interpretation of the results or trusting educational recommendations from someone not familiar with a highly gifted population.

As far as the amount of testing in the afternoon, some of what they are talking about are likely inventories that can be done very quickly. If you proceed I would suggest they do the cognitive testing first or on anther day. It may not take more than an hour to do.

Thank you, PTP, for that honest reality-check.

I'm really trying to separate baby from bathwater in my own head, for sure. I'm significantly concerned about my daughter being "labeled" with some disorder or LD she most emphatically does NOT have. This really seems to be existential/isolation/alienation stuff. I can see her experiencing/thinking some of the same things that I did at thirteen and fourteen, which tallies perfectly with her LOG and mine.

I'd love to have "the numbers" to prove what we have known for years-- and better still to have it covered even partially by our insurance. So on the one hand, I'm VERY keen to do this; but then the angel of my better nature as a mom is on the other shoulder, and telling me that I can't jump at the chance without thinking it through... Maybe not if it doesn't mean anything. I just don't see how it WOULDN'T be skewed significantly due to sheer sleep deprivation, honestly. We're not experts by any stretch of the imagination, and even we can see the dropoff in executive and cognitive functioning. So if her cognitive function currently shows that she is "MG" and has executive function deficits, I'm doubtful that either thing is even meaningful-- but the label itself could be traumatizing to her. Being HG is part of her identity at this point, and being told "no, you're MG-- why can't you just relax and enjoy being with those other MG kids" isn't likely to help her much with her feelings of isolation/alienation. KWIM?

I'm not at ALL happy that the psychologist in question doesn't seem to want to discuss testing with DH and I ahead of time. It seems very strange, and it makes my parent radar twang a bit.



We have this pair of local (female) psychologists, and then there are a number of counselors that are MSW people-- we haven't dug much further than that yet since we are significantly restricted by gatekeeping in terms of our insurance. There aren't a lot of local options-- but we are still investigating things.

Beyond that, we're looking at travel-- which is very difficult because of disability issues that must be worked around.

We are out of range for anything south of the Bay area, and NEARLY out of range for the Seattle area. Denver or the east coast is simply not a possibility. The Portland area is actually the most realistic zone for us to look toward.

Is there not a way to put an end to that? Now that you know what is going on - put the laptop, keyboards, mice under lock and key at night if you have to. Sleep deprivation should be pretty quick to resolve.

In my opinion it would be perfectly fine to speak to the doctor and explain that you've seen her academically achieving years beyond average for her grade so you think cognitive testing is important. However, right now she's in crisis and you are concerned the scores will not accurately reflect her abilities. As your insurance is likely to pay for the cognitive testing only once you'd prefer to get the situation more stabilized first.


???? Who would tell her that???

You are the one who owns this test information. If you don't think it is accurate you don't have to give her the results. And, no matter the results nobody has to say that "relax" line.


Another possible interpretation of this situation. Most people don't want to know these details so they didn't think to offer them. Most people hire someone they think is good at their job and then trust that they have the ability to determine what tests to run based on a reading of the history and the referral. Certainly you should have a conversation with the doctor if you want to, but I'd start from assuming they aren't trying to be evasive or cheat you. You'll probably get further in getting to the bottom of the situation.

Ultimately it sounds like you are going to need a local (or close to local) resource for therapy. It may be good to pursue an evaluation out of the area if you can afford it, but I hope you will get lucky and find a workable local resource.

Yes, I should have explained better:

we HAVE taken steps to stabilize the situation, absolutely. New passwords on all of the other (non-DD) computers, disabling the LAN at night, and physically REMOVING her laptop into our bedroom each night. We have also taken the stance that if she wipes the history or cache files, she WILL lose computer privileges, even if that has a deleterious impact on her grades of social life; and that we will be checking her account activity and internet use regularly.

So we are hopeful that this will rapidly turn things around. That and the whopping VitD deficiency that the bloodwork revealed, that is.

I think maybe this was just surprise that I asked/mentioned things on the part of the intake PA, and, as you noted, that this is not the "usual" thing. After a little bit of back and forth with the Psych2 (the doctor, that is), the PA seemed much less stand-offish over the "preliminary" appointment with DH and me. We now have an appointment about a week ahead of the scheduled appointment with DD.

I made it clear that we view this appointment as a way for the three of us to candidly share what we are hoping to learn and how she plans to investigate different possibilities. The PA responded with "of course, of course-- absolutely." (Which was, if not a completely different set of lyrics, at least a major key change from previous conversations with her. Oh well.)

We are definitely going into it with open minds. And since it is still about a month away, we have some definite hope that the situation should have radically changed for the better by then. It will have, if past history is anything to go by, anyway. DD always turns around about this time each spring.

As for the 'relax' line, well, you're right that nobody would actually SAY that to her... more that she'd put things together that way inside her head, I think.

Now, I don't know what we would tell her in that case; No Habla isn't going to work with this particular child, that is for sure. She's very savvy medically and we've never hidden test results from her, since we've always treated her like a partner in her healthcare.

More stuff to mention to the psychologist, I suspect.

Have you read Living with Intensity? If not I would very highly suggest reading it. It addresses existential angst in adolescents well.