Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy deterioration; we're at a loss to find solutions

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let's see if this link to the google map of testers is working...

Do you have a specialist who works with gifted kids in your area? While I certainly think that's preferable, I don't think it is the only option if that's not accessible. As important is to get the kid in with someone who can see them soon and on a regular basis and that is probably going to be someone local.

It seems to me in this thread that you've describe a wide range of possible concerns (oppositional behavior, depression, attention, anxiety, challenges posed by a medical disability, need for greater independence, perfectionism, etc.) While giftedness may well be part of some of these issues, as many maybe related to her personality and medical challenges.

There are MANY good therapists in the world who are not gifted specialists. If you don't have the gifted specialist option locally I might think of instead looking for a good general therapist who gets along with teenagers and is a respectful, open minded individual. That is most likely not going to be someone who bills themselves as an ADD specialist. Especially given the particular considerations association with your daughter's medical disability, it is likely going to be the case that any therapist you choose (even if they are a gifted specialist) is still going to need to be open to adapting to learn more about her unique situation.

If you don't have a gifted specialist in the area, one option might be to travel and get an assessment and then pursue ongoing therapy locally. You'd then have the gifted specialist available to you as a resource as you attempt to tackle these concerns. It may be unpopular to say, but personally I am not a fan of assuming your child has SB scores in the 160s because she scores 99% tile on acheivement tests. Those are really different things. I have seen bright and aware parents totally get the level of giftedness wrong. As a general rule I don't think it is particularly important to get IQ scores at this age, but given the situation with her schooling it may be helpful to get this information.

At any rate, I think the biggest help is going to come from getting a really good therapist who can help her through the challenges and transitions that come with adolescence.

Wow-- thank you AGAIN, everyone.

I don't know that a "gifted specialist" is in the cards, honestly, given location and other considerations in the situation.

But it's good to hear that our radar jangling over the therapist's credentials/specialty is not entirely unwarranted, at least.


We actually suspect that this is probably just our daughter's personality colliding with angst and hormones. She has an incredible tendency to "win" anything she sees as any kind of power struggle-- and anyone she knows very well who attempts to guide her is often caught in her crosshairs there.

In other words, a lot of this is (in our estimation) because she's who she is, and she's decided that "adults" who try to "tell her what to do" (ie-- you have to brush your teeth... you have to complete your schoolwork each day) are trying to "control" her. Ay yi yi...

Anyway.

Also want to note here that I agree with PTP about 'assuming' ability scores on the basis of acheivement testing, even out of level. That's definitely not the sole (or even 'major?') basis for our estimates. Our estimate is a range based on how our DD seems to fit developmentally and cognitively into the range of known scores of close family members, whose scores on the same SB tool range from 137 to 170-something. Her abilities are toward the top end of that range. DH thinks 150+, and given all of my experience with the person who was the 170-something individual (it was a parent), I think she's not quite at that level, but she's clearly more capable than my DH or I either one. So I think 160's-- but that *could* mean 155-170, in all liklihood. Her development puts her there by pretty much any estimation tool (Ruf's, etc.). All that to say that while our STATE may be happy using acheivement test scores to identify gifted students, we don't necessarily put much stock in that for its own sake.

I was definitely surprised when the intake PA for Psych II didn't KNOW what kinds of assessments/evaluations were planned for this four hours-- but that cognitive assessments were unlikely to be part of it. That just kind of boggled my mind. They know that she's 11 and they know she's an 8th grader. So that sort of left me scratching my head.

I'm still waiting to hear back from them about what, precisely, they are planning with this four hours of assessment. Seems a little weird that they didn't know right off hand what might be on the table, so to speak.

Now I'm wondering about the value of a practice SAT/ACT though... just for the number, I mean.

We probably can't get official registration done because of disability accommodations that would need hammering out ahead of time.

We've known all along that DD will need someone who is highly flexible and willing to learn if she's to establish a positive working relationship with a therapist.

It's a major reason why we've always tried more of a DIY approach to these things. I just think that we need outside help with this.

HowlerKarma,

If you have documentation that supports the need for the accommodations you are requesting, it can't hurt to go ahead and start the process of getting them approved. Once you have SAT accommodations in place, you don't have to re-apply - they stay in place. So it isn't a bad idea to get the accommodations approved now anyway, even if it turns out that you can't get approved in time for the test that you want to take this year.

Good point.

I've really been dreading it, and I guess that has probably translated into me looking for reasons to avoid it and rationalizing why "later" is a better time to do it. <sigh> There isn't going to be a better time.

Oh yuck.

Well, psych2's office called back. They plan to do "cognitive, executive, emotional, eating-disorder, etc. etc." assessments with that four hours.

When I asked for more specifics, I was informed that she "doesn't like to" be specific about the assessment tools prior to the appointment.

Hmm... Well, oddly enough, I don't like to be giving blanket approvals for testing for my young adolescent daughter, either.



So apparently I'll need to schedule an appointment with the psych if I want more specific information ahead of time.

I said that was just fine with me. I just don't want to say "Yeah, sure-- whatever" unless the doctor can explain WHY a particular assessment is being performed and what she hopes to learn from it.

They wouldn't expect me to sign on for a chest X-ray and an MRI without giving me a reason why, would they?

<sigh>

DH and I are not happy with how this has all transpired thus far. Our family doc probably has a lot to do with that, but if they are looking for a particular problem, maybe they ought to let us in on the secret, too, YK?

Maybe this is unfair of me, but I'm not sure that I want someone that doesn't work with HG kids doing any cognitive testing of my DD-- especially if she doesn't establish any kind of rapport with her first.

My DD is pretty sensitive to interpersonal relationships, and if she feels weird about the situation or the doc, she will definitely shut down. She has NEVER been alone with a medical practitioner. She has always had one of us in the room with her.


To think that she can do cognitive assessment AND all of the rest of that in about four hours also seems to me to be pretty naive, but maybe I'm wrong. Hmm.

The other reason I'm wary is that we don't have previous numbers to compare with, and we've even noticed the drop-off in cognitive ability lately as a direct result of sleep deprivation and inadequate nutrition. It's not that she's not still functional at an 11yo level. She is. It's just that she's not functional at a PG, high-schooler level the way she ordinarily is.

So I worry a bit that her scores will reflect current circumstances more than they reflect native/ordinary ability, and if that is the case, I'd rather not have them. I think that the psych MIGHT be better off seeing a portfolio of DD's earlier work in that case.

I don't really have any aversion to knowing the numbers-- just the manner in which they are being obtained seems a little off-kilter to me, and I worry that it could do more harm than good, maybe even damaging DD's position with her school. (ie-- if her scores drop down into the 130 range, which is quite possible at the moment, it might 'appear' as though her placement is 'too high' when the reality is actually the other way around, given what we've seen this year.) Honestly, I'd love to have the real numbers in front of us. I just have a little skepticism about the level of experience that the person administering the assessment has; in addition to that, I have some concerns about the inherent validity of any value determined while my DD is clearly in some kind of crisis.

Ugh.

Besides, we think that we may have gotten to the root of at least SOME of the problems here-- it seems that our devious princess has been staying up all night in order to sneak onto the computer in the night so that she can play Pokemon and hang out in chat rooms. Oh, and YouTube... working on her YouTube account and PMs from gawd-knows-who... We really don't even KNOW exactly what all she's been up to since she's so effectively been lying to us about it, and she is so savvy that she has been able to repair the wireless LAN when we've disabled it, clear her cache and clean it of incriminating evidence, etc.

:EEK:

Yes, my 11 yo daughter.

<hair on fire>

Okay, well, this certainly explains the sleep deprivation. That, in turn, probably explains at least some of the appetite suppression, too (this is pretty common in sleep deprivation in my family), and DEFINITELY the executive function shortfall recently...


Oh, and she also informed me late last week that she's just plain "Tired of" her dad and I thinking that we are "better than her" just because we are adults. Yeah, she apparently doesn't think that adults should have any right to tell her what to do. Regarding ANYTHING. (Yes, I know. I explained to her that at eleven, she's not exactly self-sufficient yet. I even enforced this lesson by cheerily leaving her to walk the fifteen minutes home from where we were at the time, much to her shock.)





Just thinking out loud here. DD is emotionally pretty extreme, so as JamieH notes, this could just be HG intensity meets PG need for autonomy meets adolescent girl hormones meets probable S.A.D. meets inappropriate educational placement/setting and completely "normal" within that context. I don't have a lot of faith that the average psychologist is going to see it in that light, however. But maybe I'm being too cynical.

Hmm-- finally, in better news, our local college math department has a COUPLE of young women who look to be potentially wonderful tutors for DD.

One of them even shares DD's passion for social justice, which could be a really great connecting point in addition to the math.

From what I could tell of the young woman's Facebook page, she also looks somewhat like Amita from Numb3rs, too, which can only help.

Well, nevermind that. She isn't probably suitable since her tutoring expertise ends at about the level DD is currently at, and she's actually a major in another department. <sigh> Darn.


We'll keep trying. There are several female grad students in the department.

Here's my opinions:


She is going to have to get a much better upfront co-operative bedside manner to get anywhere with your daughter and her very opinionated mother. � �Hmm, do you have time to get on the same page ? �What kind of question is that?!

Find out how to call Aimee Yermish. �She posts on this board sometimes to answer people's questions. �I don't really know what she does besides administer tests and specialize in giftedness, but by reading what she writes she's way more thorough than "let's do the checklist and slap on a few generic lables". �She looks for the nuance and interprets how to help specific, individual children. �Google her and see if you can hire her as a consultant/advocate whatever it's called so she can know you're situation and help educate you how to guide your local psychiatrist into actually being of useful service to you. �I would if I didn't like what I was getting locally. �I wouldn't know who else to call. �Are you DYS? �

Sheesh. �Kids. �I guess there's Internet safety and things I haven't thought about yet. �But other than that if you don't want to micro-manage her day you might consider giving her a taste of her own medicine by making a little kid reward chart with chores, homework, eating, everything you would have to make a little kid do that you would have to do on your own if you lived by yourself. �Cook, eat, dishes, bathe, mop. �Use her star chart plus monopoly money to give her $6/week. �Charge her $1 for Internet, one dollar for electricity, and $1 for keeping snacks in the house. �Take the power cord to the computer (except during homework) or the lightbulbs from her room if she doesn't pay. �If she does pay then she's eating, doing homework, and hygiene, then let her be a night owl since she doesn't have a schedule.

Yes, I have been giving this some thought �even though my kids are pre-k because I desperately want to stay one step ahead of them. �