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Ds5's writing is still atrocious, and he taught himself to read at 3. Even now he hardly ever writes. I don't know which is more "normal" ... or if there even is a "not normal," really, for order of learning reading/writing.

Well, it *seems* "not normal" to me that he's writing before he's reading. It's certainly different than the order of things that everyone in my personal experience has progressed through. (Not that that matters, mind you. )

I mean, it's not that he's scribbling and calling it writing. That seems like something most kids do. He pretty much never did that. One day he just decided he was ready to write, and he said "How do you make an E?" Immediately he started making lovely Es that look like Es. He can sign his name very legibly. He drew a picture for his friend and wrote the friend's name on it. He loves to write. But he can't read a single word yet except his name, and he's not reliable about that.

He's a perfectionist--it's clear already--so maybe he's just the all or nothing kind of kid, and it's easier to write a letter for him now than it would be for him to read a WHOLE story or even a whole word.

Dunno. I just know it seems bass-ackwards to me. More evidence to make me wonder if this kid is just ND, is GT but just different than child #1, or 2E. <shrug> That's why I wondered how common it was.

Thanks Kickball,
The key question is this, how does DD react to the 'baby work' in the preschool she is in now? If she is 99.9 then GT school with some level of full skip sounds good, and your third child can enjoy the same school without the skips if he falls into the 97-99 range.

As for the Full K next year v. half-day local K this year, totally depends on your needs, and how she reacts socially to being with agemates in a school or preschool environment. She may need to be with older children next year in the local half-day K for social reasons, or the preschool, with it's less academic orrientation may be perfect. If you can post some about her personality, and how she does in playdates, etc, or when olders sister's friends come over to play, we'll try to help you think about it - but I do think you have a good handle on the key parts of a workable program.

Smiles,
Grinity

Kriston, I guess you'll know soon enough whether you get DS tested our not!! C-Dog did somewhat the same thing as DS. She said she could not read, but she was really saying she did not want to read. She is quite an actress and even had me convinced. Big bad mommy trying to make the little girl read!

In kindergarten, the kids that were reading seemed to get some type of "special attention" in DD's eyes. Her reading then exploded. Of course I didn't know it at the time, but in hindsight, it was clear. She isn't going to do anything she doesn't want to and is smart enought to know simply claiming she can't do it gets her out of it.
I'm not saying that is what's going on with your son. Maybe, maybe not.
I just think if a child can write words, there is a good chance they could read those same words if they wanted to. Unless of course there is some sort of twice exceptionality going on.
Also, we didn't think DD5 was smart as compared to big sister. DD5 is 99.6 vs. DD8 99.9. Yes, there is acually quite a difference between the two. However, DD5 is STILL 99.6. She still has severe needs we need to address educationally. Her needs seemed more downplayed compared to big sister's. But, and a BIG BUTT, We were comparing her to big sister, not her normal group of peers. See what I mean?

Incog

Hmmm ... ds's reading did seem to really hop when the crosswords and word searches came out for the reading kids in his kindergarten class ... DD3 is much more willing to show her stuff than DS is. DS had horrible small motor skills before kindergarten. He could write in big block caps after 4, but it was always accompanied by much whining.

Exactly! And that's exactly what I wonder about. But I haven't followed up with a specialist yet for a couple of reasons. 1) I think they'll think I'm crazy to take my DS3 to a doctor because he can't yet read, and 2) just when I was ready to make an appointment (no matter what they thought of me!), he started writing all of a sudden and very well. That said to me that maybe I'm just being a nervous nellie and he's just developing differently.

But I can't get past how weird it seems to me for a kid to write before reading, which is why I wondered how common that is, if it indicates a 2E issue or if it's just another developmental path?

I think it all comes to what you define as a reading. Reading to me is the ability to read words you haven't seen before. You know it's not "just" an ability to memorize lots of words. DS5 could "read" the words he remembered, but to me it wasn't reading. KWIM? When DS3 started sounding out words we didn't really believe him. We thought he had memorized how to sound out a few words. Once he got to the point of "And what does ... mean?" we finally agreed that yes, he may be really reading.

What happens if you write down a word he writes often enough and ask him to read it?

I agree with that definition. Memorization alone isn't reading. Check.



I don't know that I've tried that. I will do so tonight. (They're playing by themselves, and there's no way I'm interrupting that!!! )

I will say that he has never spontaneously read anything but his name. Nothing. He rarely even IDs letters unless prompted to, and then he gets as many wrong as he gets right. I haven't tried to see if he can write more letters than he can read. I rather doubt it, but it would be a horse race for sure.

I agree too, but DD5 also learned to read by memorization. Meaning, she doesn't use phonics, but memorizes the word to read later and knows the context.
This was confusing for me because DD8 started reading soon after she knew all the alphabet sounds and can still sound out words and pronounce them right, even if she doesnt' know what it means.
She did well on that psuedowords portion of the WIAT.
DD5, however, didn't really jump on the phonics bandwagon. Someone suggested to me I make flashcards of the Dolch sight words. She quickly memorized those and that's when she began to read at all.
It basically comes down to the fact that their brains work differently and they process differently.
Try the dolch sight words on flashcards. It's one word at a time as opposed to seeing a page with a bunch of words which can be a bit intimidating, ESPECIALLY to a very precocious youngster, IMO.

OTOH: "He rarely even IDs letters unless prompted to,"

if he does have a 2E, I think it's hard to figure that out now, but what do I know. Maybe Debbie has a better idea about that.
Maybe he's just not into learning how to read now. You said 3? At three they are so elusive! You like: Free to be you and me? My DD5 when she was 3: "Free to be me, me, me and it's all about me!! It's not like his mother is stubborn or independent thinking or anything, right?


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ROFL! I don't know WHAT you're talking about? And I'll continue to stubbornly and independently cling to that denial! tee-hee-hee!

I haven't tried sight words with him. I'll do that.

Seriously, I've hardly "taught" DS3 anything, since I never really had to teach DS6 anything. Even potty training, what I did wasn't appearing to have much effect with DS6 (then just 3yo). I sent him to grandma's house and he came home trained! I was so nervous about training DS3 because I had no clue what I was doing. It worked out fine...mostly because he followed DS6's lead!

I read to DS3 all the time, point out words, have him try to sound things out...but it's not his thing yet. He's more interested than he was a few months ago, but he's still not nearly as into it as his big brother was when he was 2, and DS3 is nearly 4.

I've just been patient, figuring he'll get there when he gets there. Now I'm wondering if it's a failure of imagination on my part. I just haven't appealed to him where he is.

Of course, that assumes I know where he is...or can figure it out...