Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment 5 yr old with high NNAT and average CogAT scores

Hi all I am new here and have a question on the CogAT and NNAT.

My son is 5 and in kindergarten at a public school. He was referred for testing by his teacher to see if he qualified for the g&t program. They look at CogAT, NNAT and MAP scores.

We got the scores back and though he did well on the NNAT and his MAP scores were high he did only average or maybe slightly above on the cogAT so was not accepted into the program.

Scores:
CogAT V-118
CogAT q-110
CogAT nv-119
NNAT 136
MAP-R-99%+
MAP-M-99%+

My question is, given the discrepancy in scores between the two tests and the fact his NNAT is in the 99% should I seek a full battery IQ test? I am okay with him not getting into the program so am not going to appeal but wonder if I should get more information for the future and to better understand his learning needs.

It does not suprise me his NNAT was high as he has always excelled at puzzles, has been drawing mazes since age 3, etc. but I am not sure I see him as a true VS learner. He taught himself to read at age 4 and seems to do well so far in school. He is in an accelerated reading program and his teacher has him at an instructional level of 2nd grade for math and reading. But I realize if he is a true VS learner it may cause issues in the future and wonder if I should explore this further?

I guess I also wonder is it possible he is gifted and the CogAT did not for whatever reason identify it? Or is he just strong in visual-spatial tasks but not gifted in any other area? Or could the NNAT score have just been a spike and not indicative of anything?

I would love some opinions as my husband thinks there is no reason to seek additional testing but I am not sure. I like to be proactive and wonder if a full scale IQ test would identify any potential problems or give us more insight into his learning needs.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. I really appreciate it.

The NV section of the CogAT is the part of that test that should have picked up the VS stuff. I say "should have" b/c it is not at all uncommon for gifted kids to do more poorly on multiple choice group tests. At his age, time and reading skills won't have come into play b/c it is only read to oneself and timed starting in 3rd grade, but that can be another issue with the CogAT for gifted kids.

I have one child with high-ish scores on the CogAT (certainly above avg, but not GT) who has individual IQ scores that are above the 99th percentile. The interesting thing is that her strengths and weaknesses are totally different on the CogAT vs. WISC (IQ) as well.

The counselor dd has seen for other issues, like me, is not a huge fan of the CogAT or other group tests and reminded me that they are not intelligence tests. Interestingly enough, I also know a very few kids with scores on the CogAT that qualified them for a GT id locally who were later tested on IQ and weren't much above average. Of course, our local programs are pretty liberal as to what would qualify for GT with the CogAT (95th percentile in any one area).

I'm surprised that they would rule him out based upon one score not qualifying when the other two (MAPS and NNAT) so clearly do. I might start with contacting the district GT coordinator to discuss how they id gifted. Do kids need to qualify on everything with any one bad day/low score ruling them out? I'd think that it would be a pretty small program if so! Especially given that scores on achievement and group ability tests tend to fluctuate quite a bit in elementary students (see: http://faculty.education.uiowa.edu/dlohman/pdf/Gifted_Today.pdf), I'd be really leery of that type of system. See if they'd take individual IQ scores.

Given what else you've said (teaching himself to read at four, current achievement level, NNAT scores), I'd bet that he'd come out gifted on an IQ test. FWIW, his CogAT scores are about one standard deviation above the mean (approx 86th percentile), so not just slighly above average.

Thank you so much for your reply and insight and the article you posted. I also appreciate the information on his cogAT score. They did not list his percentile on the results form the sent.

The school did not give me much in the way of information just that he did not qualify. The form did specify they do not accept outside testing. From what I understand, here in Texas they rely heavily on the CogAT to identiy children for the gifted program which at this age is a pull-out for only 30 minutes per week! That increases as they progress through elementary school.

So I assume even if a full scale IQ test identified him as gifted that they would accept it. It just makes me wonder if I should pursue it because maybe I need to consider other educational options for him?? I am not sure, as this is all new to me. I always thought he was bright but gifted did not enter my radar really until recently and he may just be bright and not gifted and it will play out naturally on it's own. I just want to make sure I am doing the best for him.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond!I appreciate your personal insight.

I've heard many mixed reports on the accuracy of the CogAT. On the other hand, our district uses the NNAT and I've talked to dozens of people who's kids have tested with that. It's obviously not a perfect test either (can miss GT kids too, especially verbal kids, kids who test young may have inconsistent results, etc). Anecdotally however, the dozen kids or so kids I know that have gotten above a 99 PR on the NNAT have all present as quite gifted 4 years later with consistent IQ and/or achievement scores (even those that weren't necessarily showing it at age 5 or 6). And in most cases globally. If you feel like you need more info, you may want more testing. I'm also surprised your district doesn't ID him with the MAP and NNAT scores that he has.

Thank you Kimck! That is interesting about the NNAT. It sounds like it is worth exploring a bit further. If anything I should probably talk to the g&t coordinator at the school. If nothing else to figure out why the empasis is so heavily placed on the cogAT.

Appreciate your response...thanks again!