Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Loss of self esteem in EG girl almost 10

I am very concerned about my DD who was confident, self assured and described as a leader in her class till this year. Now she says there is nothing good about her, she has no confidence. In her abilities academically or socially. She is on a cluster group in her class, but the others are MG, or simply high achievers.

She has also started to develop physically too, ahead of most of the other girls.

I am beginning to think a grade skip may help, but what if it lowers her self esteem further?

Any btdt?


Thanks

Steph

Is she trying to do her self-acculization? In other words is she trying to refine herself to gain her own self respect, a higher level (gifted issue) need. Or is she trying to gain respect of others, a necessary for survival base need. (sometimes tough for gifted ) They're both important, but it helps to know which it is.

Skim this for details:
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/maslow.html

Because if it's #1 you can talk to her about friendship skills, make a list of things you feel happy after you've done them that day. Find at least one kid who likes to do each thing on the list. That's how you make friends.

If it's #2 you have to learn reflective listening/questioning skills to help her refine the things she likes about life because she's trying to figure out what she wants to be.

So says me, the lady behind the keyboard who's baby's aren't even that old yet.
(that means I'm just guessing)

MON makes an excellent point.
What about the work being given to the cluster group...if it doesn't. Give her a chance to feel afraid and then overcome that feel that she can't do the work it is hard to develop self confidence. See the chapter in Battle Cry of the Tiger Mother called Cadenza and mentally subtract the yelling.

Would a grade skip fit the bill? It sure might help. What grade is she in and what grade do kids go to a new building in your particular system. Is there a cluster group in the next grade up and if so what are those kids and their curriculum like?

How are do you defining EG? Is she way beyond DYS cut offs?
How did the Parents meeting go?
Love and more. Love
Grinity

Thanks, she tested 141 on the SB5. She is in year 5 but doing year 8 math through distance education and online. She has no reason to have low academic self esteem as she is the top student in math and reading.

Is this perfectionism? She is beyond the cluster group. Next year up is same school, new building. One HG girl in cluster she likes.

DD is not keen to skip. She wants to belong in her age group peer group. Says she wants to be with kids her own age.

Don't think there is bullying involved. She is liked by everyone, kind and gentle. Even befriended downes syndrome girl in the class.

This lack of academic and social self esteem seems to be baseless to anyone but her. Is she realizing she is different? Will she start to underachieve to fit in?

Writing is her "weakness" and she describes herself as "terrible" at it. Yet I know she is one of the best writers in the class, just not so far beyond like she is in math.

My gut feeling is it is time to skip, but how do I convince her? Principal has said she can skip at any time.

Am meeting in 1 week with teacher, as gifted co ordinator away ATM, and I want her present. I also want to know what it is I want for DD.

I don't want daughter saying there is nothing good about her, nothing to like, and nothing to look forward to in the future! She even said she has noticed her "lifeline " on her palm is cut short, which concerns her . The troubles of the world concern her.

What to do?

Steph
Steph

It sounds like the existential depression in gifted described here:
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counseling/Webb_ExistentialDepressionInGiftedIndividuals.shtml

P.S. This book has more info how existential depression is tied to Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration and advice that may help.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0910707898

Are you able to have her tell you specifically, during some calm moments, and crying is ok too, what it is she thinks she is terrible at? What did she think she was "able" to do? Did she think she was able to do something perfectly? Is it that writing includes lots of editing and that reveals a lot of "imperfection" -- even though that is part of the process?

Just some thoughts, because if she can recognize her own feelings, it will useful for the rest of her life. If she can recognize what she is afraid of, what steps she can take to slowly get better at something, etc etc

Best wishes to you and your DD,

Inky, terrific links-- that is what I was thinking about, as well, between this thread and the other one about "parenting crossroads" also about a girl about this age.


Middle school is just awful for girls (in general terms) and being different in ANY way only makes it more excruciating. Unfortunately, we can't always choose to be like everyone else:

only in what manner we are radically different.

What makes her feel most comfortable in her own skin, in other words?

{{hugs}}




That really resonates with me. I'm not sure that I know the underlying psychology there, but this sounds painfully similar to things that my own DD11 began saying about three years ago when she entered middle school. It truly doesn't seem to be "perfectionism" though it can sure look like it. DD's standards seem to be pretty idiosyncratic and variable, and it is the kind of thing that she says about not just academic work-- but ANYTHING that isn't going well (by her standards). It doesn't seem to respond to anything external, but my gut says that it is rooted in her self-perceptions and in her burgeoning recognition of how her asynchrony impacts her ability to acheive the way she would like.

Non-GT ed folks have said that "working on the weakness" to "bring it up the level of the rest" is the answer, and GT experts seem to feel that fighting asynchrony is pointless and leads to profound problems. I have no idea who (if either) is correct, or if THEY even know why some kids do this. My gut says that neither one of those answers it right for my own DD. Is it a girl thing?? I really wish that I knew.

I do think that it feeds underacheivement-- it's as though I am holding my breath as I watch DD walk closer and closer to the edge of the cliff there, or something. I can just sense it lurking there.

Former underacheiver extraordinaire, here. My rationale was something like this: If I fail (to meet my goal) after really trying my best, then I will be forced to admit that I'm not as smart as I want to believe that I am. Ergo, I will not try very hard. That way, sure, the results won't be great-- but I won't have risked anything personally, either, and therefore I can escape emotional damage by shrugging off the results with "Yeah, but I could have done so much better..."

I repeatedly set myself up for failure, and then I was never unpleasantly surprised, if that makes sense. (Yes, I know-- but an "irrational" sort of sense!) This all started in about middle school, with a move in the middle of the school year. It began as a means of 'hiding' in plain sight as a response to being different. I didn't WANT to have any 'extra' attention drawn to me by teachers, and I certainly didn't want to give something my all only to fall short. I hated rejection-- so I decided to beat the whole darned world to the punch. I quit trying for excellence and vanished into the shadows. That downward spiral went other places later on (including a whopping case of imposter syndrome), but no need to go there.

_________________

That's probably considerably OT, but I think it is worth mentioning that MOST female students who are homeschooled are pulled OUT of awful middle grade situations. (gr 5-9)

If it were me (and it isn't), I might be tempted to try distance education options or homeschool for a few years if the skip doesn't seem like the right thing to do. (And it might not be.)

To me this sounds exactly like perfectionism. How do you see it as different?

Sounds like she is engaging in a lot of self-criticism.

If she has a social network of supportive friends in her current classes then having to start all over might be further destabilizing, if she is verging on actual depression. Is she enjoying her usual fun activities? Wanting to go do things with her friends? Her usual self in other ways? Is her negativity limited to academic type subjects or is she feeling negative about a lot of aspects of life?

The parent teacher conference sounds like a great start. If that doesn't seem to shed light on it then perhaps a visit with a counselor, psychologist etc who may have experience with girls in puberty, get some sense of how seriously to take her comments, etc.

Polly

It isn't baseless to have low self esteem if one is way past ones peers. The fact that she is placed in a group that looks dumb to her means to her that people believe she is dumb. It takes a lot of maturity to accept that we may feel normal to ourselves but that doesn't make it so.

There is a real danger she will do dunb down.

As far how to convinse her....so many ways. From bribary (pony anyone) to asking her what she would do in your situation to talking more about what ot is she likes about being with her agemates to arranging a fun playdate with the older HG girl. She may need you to play the heavy and insist that she do at least a trial so she can compare. You can say that the Principle wants it if the Princip is willing. You can ask her to visualize all the boring homework that shell never have to do. Check for class trips or rituals that she may have been looking forward to for a long time.

In the end she knows that the point of school includes learning with peers and that a skip is one way to get that.

Best Wishes
Grinity