Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Loss of self esteem in EG girl almost 10

Well, I say that it isn't because we do occasionally see more classic perfectionism in action-- spinning and spinning with an assignment or task and tinkering endlessly because it "isn't quite right yet" etc. All-or-nothing mentality regarding results, etc. (Anything less than a perfect score becomes "I failed" and that kind of thing.)

This business of judging one's self by ones weaknesses-- and not very objectively at that-- is a different kind of thing. It's apparently a self-image issue, but it isn't related to DATA at all. Perfectionism is data-driven... at least what we have seen seems to be; that is, a 98% score means "I should have tried harder... I was almost there" and having to apply herself to a research paper means "I must be really stupid, because this is REALLY hard..."

Does that help?

Inky thanks, there is definitely some existential depression here! She has said she thinks life is difficult, disappointing and doesn't quite see how she will fit in.

But, outside of school all is great. She is multi-talented, playing piano, violin and French horn. She plays tennis, basketball, and learns hip hop dance outside school and loves them all. But it seems she has almost lost her identity.

Maybe Grinity you are right. She is in the wrong group. She is way ahead of them. Due to the multiage structure of the school, the older hg girl was in her class last year, and they loved working together and "competing". But this year she has gone and there is no competitionfor her academically.

I have mentioned the trial idea of a skip with her and she was less negative than just simply skipping. Otherwise maybe subject acceleration in language arts to be with the hg girl at least part time? In math my DD is way ahead of her .

DD doesn't want the skip as she feels her chances of being voted into a leadership position next year will be less! She has also been with several of her classmates for 6 years now, and relationships are very important to her.

I believe there are several issues at play here, including all the above and perfectionism. But I do not want her dumbing down to fit in!

Thanks all

Steph

This may be hormones. My daughter began this process early. Even though she is younger than the others in her class, she was one of the first to go through puberty.

She is thirteen now and is finally showing signs of settling down.

I would not skip her to a higher grade. She should probably stay put. Placing her with Middle Schoolers is "feeding her to the lions".

This has been way tougher than I imagined.

So much of what happens with girls is under the radar, but the teacher may be able to give you another view of what's going on.

I think it is always a gift to give kids a chance to see someone "professional" to help with their problems. If you find the right person, it can help with the current issue. And it helps our children see that it is ok to ask for help. It's a good life lesson.

If your child is involved with activities outside of school (teams, casts, clubs) see if you can help her cultivate friendships in those circles. I have found that if you are "out" with your group at school, it is helpful to have another group to pal around with.

Hang in there. This is hard.

Since subject accelerations or trials are availble give then a try. Think of it like introducing solid food...make changes slowly and observe and be ready to try something else. I believe that if the academics fit then the social is likely to follow but remember that even ND kids have good years and bad years socially and that is valuable life experience too.

I'm a little worried about all of the afterschool activities but I do know kids who thrive at that pace. But her activities are ones that can foster tremendous competition if done that way. Perhaps try to encourage her to move in the direction of a mixture of competitive and exploratory activities? Creating a student led school newpaper or building or creating anything or cooking or spirituality or service projects or dog training all might help get her to see live in a more ...sometimes u win sometimes u lose but u always learn something frame of mind

Love and more love
Grinity

Yes, perhaps it isn't important but I define perfectionism much more broadly. Sure, the 98% on the test and I suck is part of it. But, I think we can also see perfectionism in other areas. That can be in failure to accurately give yourself credit for good characteristics or good deeds. It can be having unrealistic expectations for yourself and other people.

Perhaps the distinctions aren't important but it might be worthwhile for the original poster to take a quick read of a few articles about perfectionism just in case understanding that may give some ideas for helping her daughter through this period.

I have a 10 year old EG girl. Actually have the opposite situation right now as my daughter is developing self esteem for the first time.

Still, I think I have a few thoughts -

1. 10 year old girls can be moody and go through funks. At least consider this possibility.

2. Miraca Gross's book on exceptionally gifted children taught me a lot. One chapter went into self esteem and pointed out the obvious: there are different aspects of self esteem. Social, academic, etc.

By looking at it as a more complex issue, maybe you can get a better feel for what is causing this. Perfectionism can certain cause issues, but social interactions can cause different kinds of issues. Different spectrums.

(If you haven't read Miraca Gross's book - it is boring. However, I felt like it was worth a read because it covers EG kids in a really thorough way.)

3. My son periodically had horrible fits of lack of self esteem. Weird as it sounds, we discovered that removing eggs from his diet changed him completely. I don't know if it was an allergy, stomach upset, or what. I just know that if he comes home from school crying for any reason, it is a sure bet that he had something with eggs in it (cake, cookies, brownies) at a party.

4. Can't remember the name of the book, but a psych a few years ago recommended a book on self esteem for me to read regarding my daughter Barbie. The key point of the whole book was that self esteem comes from facing a challenge, working hard, and experiencing success.

It is easy to think that a gifted child has good self esteem because they have experience so much success and are confident in their abilities. However, if they have never faced and challenge and worked hard to accomplish success, they don't really have the whole picture. It takes all three pieces to get there.

It isn't easy to provide an EG kids with the chance to overcome a real challenge, but it is critical to ensuring that really do have good self esteem. For my son this year, it was learning a musical instrument. No award for academics ever really mattered to him because it all came so easy. Practicing daily to hit the low notes on his euphonium did something the science contest couldn't.

5. When I was young, everyone thought I had great self esteem. I didn't. Perfectionism. Do read up on this.

My mom always told me that she just wanted me to 'try my best'. I always knew that I could have tried harder, so I never gave myself credit. I felt horrible about myself.

Only as an adult, when I was finally challenged, when I had to work my butt off to achieve something - only then did I give myself credit.

That said - a PT conference definitely doesn't hurt. A little extra girl time (not necessarily talking about this) doesn't hurt. Both have the possibilities of helping.

However, understanding perfectionism, understanding true self esteem, understanding the complexity of self esteem, and looking for underlying trends (food, certain times of month, whatever) -- all of that helps too.

Good luck.
Mary

This is such a helpful discussion for me, as well. So much of what you said seems SO right, Mary. Thank you for mentioning that sense of empowerment related to mastering authentic challenges.

I think that is truly it. <nods>

I also wanted to thank Stephanie for mentioning her feeling that this is related somehow to a sense of identity in a very basic way. This seems to be what we have also observed; further even than perfectionism (which is, no question, it's own problem), this is a global translation of the conclusions. "Well, if I'm not 'smart' then what/who AM I, really?"

DD definitely makes statements that lead us to think that her entire self-image is fairly skewed sometimes. It's very alarming-- if it were body image, you'd say "eating disorder." Instantly.

I do think that the Living with Intensity book would be very helpful to the OP.

This is such an interesting discussion as I look back on my own childhood and think about the future for my dd9.

I posted this on another thread, but thought it might be appropriate here too.

I have no idea how relevant this might be or if this will resonate with anyone re: girls and their friends, but as I contemplate my dd navigating the world of middle school cliques this struck me:
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=133871975

GROSS: You have a couple of lines about cliques. Would you read that for us?

Ms. PEARSON: This is Petra reflecting on the fact that she has recently been admitted to queen bee Jillian's group with mixed consequences.

(Reading) You chose the kind of friends you wanted because you hoped you could be like them and not like you. To improve your image, you made yourself more stupid and less kind. As the months passed, the tradeoff for belonging started to feel too great, the shutting down of some vital part of yourself just so you could be included on the shopping trip into town, not have to sit on your own at lunch or have someone to walk home with.

Now, among friends, you are often lonelier than you had been before. The hierarchy of girls was so much more brutal than that of boys. The boys battled for supremacy out on the pitch, and after, they showered away the harm. The girls played dirtier. For girls, it was never just a game.

I too would recommend the Living with Intensity book, I've just finished it and it was probably one of the most useful books I have read regarding giftedness. It covers pretty much everything that has been discussed here - perfectionism, selfhood, self esteem. The Gross book is good too - if a little dry, as mentioned.

I can really relate to the comments so far about authentic challenges. I think it is so hard for girls to really find a sense of themselves in those middle years, especially for gifted kids. The more highly gifted, the harder it is I suspect. Trying to fit in, combined with still not having adequate challenge, even with grade skips, makes it hard to find a) find opportunities for challenge in the first place and b) find a space place where you can engage in authentic challenge and still feel safe.

Good luck and I hope you're looking after yourself too. It's awful to watch someone you love go through something like this.