Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Math - Acceleration and/or Enrichment

I'm wondering if anyone can share their thoughts or experience in balancing between enrichment or acceleration in math.

A little background first ... My DS10 (5th) took the placement test with CTY yesterday and passed the pre-algebra. The CTY gave several suggestions for classes to take. Among them are cryptography, which he's interested in, and honors algebra I.

He's been working on NEM1 independently at school during math time. My plan is to cover a couple more topics on that book, then move on to AoPS Intro to Algebra. My husband and I are discussing whether we should continue with that plan or let him do the enrichment (cryptography class) first, or maybe do them concurrently, most likely at slower pace (or whatever pace our son decides he wants to do). Are we being too optimistic considering how hard AoPS can get?

My next question has to do with what Susan Assouline and Ann Lupkowski-Shoplik wrote in their book, Developing Math Talent.
They do not recommend the isolated-self-paced instruction that our DS is doing since it may result in feeling of isolation and he may not learn the material well. The CTY placement test result at least has helped ease this concern (how well he's learning).

I'm wondering if your child has taken self-paced CTY online class, how is it different since it is self-paced? In this regard, would a real-time online-class like AoPS be a better option?

Thanks in advance for all your insights!

I'm listening with great interest. My 10 year old 4th grader is currently doing NEM. We homeschool, so clearly it is self paced and isolated. But I'm not sure the alternatives. I know my 10 year old might be able to do AoPS online classes, but I just think the work load would be too much for him at this point. I'd love to find him a math team or something more "social". But feeling stuck where we're at.

Locally a college has a talented math program for 6th to 8th graders to get them through college math in I think amounts to 2 or 3 years. It's rigorous with a heavy workload. But the social piece would be good. I might bide our time doing NEM1/2 until he could test into that. You are supposed to be highly prepped for college level math at that point if you do well in it.

I'm actually really impressed with NEM as a curriculum. It is not quite a deep as AoPS, but really very close in terms of conceptual understanding and leaps. We went to NEM because we went through Singapore 6B and you can't really jump from 6B into AoPS without a bridge. But now I'm liking NEM. I have a math degree so I really overthink our math curriculum options!

I didn't have anything to add because we're still hoping the school will teach our child, but am interested in your replies too. One thing I've thought about with regard to their putting isolated work at the back of the classroom at the bottom of the list of options is combining it with tutoring at home. So I would choose a combination of both, so he gets group work in the cryptography, and mentored/self-paced work with the AoPS.

I don't think slowing down is a bad thing, and if you can do it with interesting challenging enrichment work, it sounds good to me.

To my mind, acceleration vs enrichment isn't the most important distinction to draw in mathematics. For purposes of developing as a mathematician, what's needed is a balance between solving hard problems using techniques you already know, and learning new techniques. Taking a course on new material - whether it's the one that would typically be taken next (acceleration) or one that wouldn't (enrichment) is certainly going to involve learning new techniques, and that's great. I don't have strong views on which of cryptography and intro to algebra would be best; in your position, I'd ask my son what he wanted to do and go with that. AoPS is as the name suggests pretty good at being problem-focused. We have the intro to algebra book, which is mostly routine but has some good challenge problems. I don't know how the online course plays out, but it might tick both boxes or it might only tick the "new material" box depending on the approach. I know nothing about that cryptography course (really interesting field though).

There's lots of problem-solving material out there, though: think Olympiads. My point would just be that it's vital to have plenty of problem solving, one way or the other. Rule of thumb: your DS should not be able to solve more than about 3 out of 4 problems without going away and mulling them over over more than one session, otherwise they're too easy. The number one problem in school mathematics education, IMNSHO, is that people who are good at maths don't get enough practice at persevering in the face of apparently insoluble problems, something which is absolutely vital to professional mathematics :-)

If it's of any interest I recently posted an update about my DS's experience doing maths on his own in class
here.

CTY is a big reason I haven't lost my mind yet.
At least he is learning through them and he learns topics he will never get a school.
When he takes a class I have him do 40 minutes a day (M-F).
If I skip days then he gets out of the routine.
Now he has a set routine, comes home plays video games for 2 hours then CTY 40 minutes then another 1 or so break then HW.

I had him repeat a course this time around since it has been a while since he took the course and it was a great idea. Instead of 3 months it took him 1 month and it really sunk in and now he is able to handle the next course w/ease.

Oh the reading classes are really great.

There are no easy answers or fixes, but the least worse option makes sense. What they are doing with our DS6 now is putting him in a 4th grade class for math every day. At the end of last year they had him do the end of 3rd grade math state assessment (off the record as he was only 5 and couldn't really take it officially). He only got one problem wrong and it was a careless mistake. So they assumed he could go into 4th grade this year. They didn't test him higher or anything...so halfway through the year as he was getting high 90's and flying through everything they realized that he could probably do 5th this year too. What they are doing probably couldn't be done in a lot of places as it does require a lot of support. They have someone in the class with him most days and when the rest of class is doing the repetition that he doesn't need, he goes to the back of the room to sit at a table and do extensions into 5th grade. Sometimes he goes back by himself if there isn't anyone extra that day and other times he is just with the whole class the whole time. Often times there are 2 other students that the teacher pulls back with my son that are pretty advanced so they can do some math together. For us this is working great. I think most kids like this can not just do one year at a time. I figure that every year he will at least do 2 yrs of math. It's a little frightening because that puts him in high school math at 8 or 9 years old...but it is what it is. They have never done anything like this before with a student, so it is new to them and everyone...but I am so glad they are trying new things and experimenting. We did EPGY on the side for a bit and still have it but don't really use it. It seems like math overkill with the math at school, math olympiads, and math books that he reads for fun (not like textbooks, just math related books and puzzles). He loves math, but there are lots of other things in life that he loves too

Funny what you said about academic kids, my son is kind of one of those academic kids...but that doesn't mean he enjoys everything he has to do in school. Last year his teacher never understood why his sentences in his journal were so basic and at first she felt he lacked creativity. He would write things like this "I went to the beach. I played. I had fun. It was nice. I went home." Well he was supposed to write 5 sentences so he always found the shortest ones he could and pretty much wrote "I played" and "I had fun." every journal entry, lol. We had to make a rule with him that he could never say "I had fun. I played" in his entries because that was in EVERY single one for months. He can be quite perfectionistic and wants to do well on things that he cares about. But other stuff he is quite fine with doing the minimal amount needed.

Kcab - Have you used any books or other fun game things for problem-solving with math? DS does math olympiads which is great, and I know they have workbooks and things with their sample problems. He also loves those mindware books that involve math: number junctions, codebreakers, sequencers, number circuits, logic links, etc. I think we got them all when they went on sale a while back. And we have some other word problem type books that he likes sometimes.

DS's writing got a little better this year too. He still isn't too wordy and but often gets annoyed on math problems that say "explain how you got your answer." He had a problem on his homework this week that asked something about when you divide a 2 digit number into a 3 digit number do you always get the same amount of digits as your answer..and then asked to explain. His explanation was "no they aren't the same, because when I divide 100 by 50 the answer is 1 digit but when I divide 900 by 30 the answer is 2 digits." In another explanation to a problem that involved dividing something evenly and having a fraction he said that you couldn't split up strawberries because it would make too much of a mess, lol. Gotta love it. At least he stopped the whole "I had fun. I played" bit. That was getting a little old.

Not certain how helpful this will be but here's our experience so far.

We homeschool too and math is extremely self paced. DS8 did Algebra for fun through some workbooks and because his interest is very high, we found a very good one-on-one tutor who uses the Dolciani text. He has been going at break neck pace through the first 4 chapters (in one month) and I feel a little nervous about this. I would like his math education to be as deep as possible, meaning that I would love to see more problem solving and more discussion and more thinking. But his tutor assures me that the acceleration/ pace is ideal at this point. DS seems to understand what's happening so I believe we will slow down if he begins to stumble. We may try AOPS Intro to Algebra next semester to help solidify/ deepen the learning experience.

I don't believe DS would have developed this much confidence towards Algebra in a group setting. He is very likely to spend group time doodling and joking around rather than focusing. However, I am looking into putting him in a small group problem and puzzle-solving class in spring. So I guess it would depend on what kind of math we're talking about. I feel that problem solving is best done in a group setting while acceleration in Algebra works best for him when it's self-paced/ individual.

Hope that makes sense. I looked into CTY's courses but found them (IMHO) extremely overpriced for the materials they are using so I just bought the CryptoClub book and also did a trial of the Thinkwell math on our own. He also loves Life of Fred and various puzzle and logic books.

I would suggest going with your instincts here and adjusting as you think fit. I don't think you are being over-optimistic at all. Our kids seem to just develop this crazy ability to learn...but as long as you're monitoring things and being there for him when he needs you, it will be okay. Keeping fingers crossed that you will encounter flexibility from the school as well.

My dd is 6 and in grade 1. We were letting her do her accelerated CTY math alone but then found some problems. Because it was computer based, she was trying to do everything in her head. I started sitting with her and helping her to use a worksheet to write out the problems. After writing out a few, she was better able to understand them and then do them in her head.

I think with some kids, like VS, it is good to work with them on these online programs during certain parts. Hence, not totally in isolation.

Ren

Thank you all for the insights... It's really reassuring to see that we're not alone!

We decided to continue with NEM1 since we're half-way through, and will continue with AoPS soon. We'll let him lead This time we actually got the support of his teacher, who has been very supportive after I showed her the CTY placement test results and the test itself.

We also bought the Cryptoclub and he started reading it for fun. He's already planning to write some codes that "Mommy won't understand! "

He's also enjoying Vi Hart's video blog. She's amazing! If you haven't had a chance to check it out, here's the link
www.vihart.com. Thank you to the parent who showed this link in another post!