Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Stanford Achievement testing/out of level

Our school uses the Stanford achievement tests each year in addition to the mandatory state testing for NCLB. The principal said they use it for "planning" but I'm not sure what that all entails. Anyway, my son is in 2nd grade but 3rd for math. I've asked if he can take the entire 3rd grade level test for the Stanford, to use as out of level testing to help us plan for his placement/curriculum next year. In spite of grade and subject acceleration, things just still don't seem a great match in terms of school.

Has anyone else used this type of test this way? Or should I look at more private testing to help with school advocacy?

Debbie,
My son�s scores were variable on the Terra-Nova when he was in the early grades. For example, in 2nd grade, his science score was well below average. We didn�t know what to make of those results other than we believed the must be inaccurate because he had always had an advanced understanding of science. At some later date, I flipped the results over and read the descriptions of the general content and administration. For the 2nd grade science test, the teacher read an (excruciating simple, I�d imagine) question aloud and the students had to chose the best pictorial depiction of the correct answer. He probably would have done very well on the fourth or fifth grade version. They were just asking ridiculous questions.

I agree with Dottie, go two years higher if you can. Your son will have more room to show what he knows and he will have higher interest in the task!

Wow, CFK, I'm surprised your ds goes backward to test as well. I've never heard of that -- as far as I'm concerned, if you're in the new grade, you're in the new grade. Very interesting ...

Recently our district has developed a full-time class for gifted kids at one of the schools in the district. Gifted kids from other schools are all bused to that school. But the kids are tested at the school that they would have gone to were they not bused. This was the only way the district could get the schools and teachers to agree to the plan; no one wanted to lose those scores. I wonder if the same kind of thinking in in place in CFK's classroom.

Thanks for the thoughts. The principal has already let me know that he has no problem having MrWiggly take the entire 3rd grade level test. It is the Stanford test they use for achievement and planning NOT the state NCLB test. That one he will have to take at his grade level - state law as everyone here notes. But he will take the grade he is enrolled in, not go back to the grade level he should be according to age, thank goodness.

That's an interesting thought, to have him take the 4th grade test. He *should* be in first grade this year, so technically 3rd is two grade levels ahead. But perhaps the fourth grade test would tell us more. My concern is that curriculum is still too slow paced for him. As the year progresses he is getting more and more restless with school. More behavior things - talking too much, acting up, moving too much in class, disruptive to others, etc. I'm sure it's because he's bored. I don't want to have him skip any more grades, but would like to see some differentiation of curriculum, which the principal said they "don't really do until 3rd grade". Yet they certainly don't differentiate in 3rd grade math!

And you are right, it does take FOREVER to get the results back - even on the Stanford. I don't know if they would be back before school starts in the fall. Maybe we'll just have to do more private testing..... I just don't know. But thanks for the input. Please add other thoughts if anyone has some!

Just to update - and share some school advocacy success:

I had emailed our principal and asked about the Stanford test being given to MrWiggly using the 3rd grade level, but 4th grade math. I also let him know that MrWiggly is taking an enrichment course (science topics - biology related, scientific method stuff), is reading R.L. Stine, Rotten School series books at home and only takes about 10 minutes to do his math homework sheets.

Mr. Principal responded that he had discussed things with the superintendent and that MrWiggly "can and will take the 4th grade level test across the board." Woo-hoo! I do believe they "get it!" Finally!

I was really worried at first - knee jerk response of "OMG, what if he can't do ANY of it??!!" But once I calmed down (thanks in part to the red wine hubby poured for me!), hubby and I decided that this is great. It's a huge change from their initial refusal to do anything. I'm so glad we keep advocating. And really glad I brought this issue up now, so we are ready for the testing in April. The principal said he agrees that the test should help us "to decide what MrWiggly's curriculum should look like next year." I do believe they are working WITH us now!

Debbie-

Great news! It does sound like things are going well.

Wow! That's fabulous! Congrats on a big step from the school.

That's awesome Debbie. Excellent job advocating for DS! And a big thanks from the parents/children that will come after you that will have an easier time providing appropriate challenge level for their children because you paved the way at your school!

Incog

Wonderful news, Debbie! It's nice that the principal is so receptive. Good luck!

Awwww...thanks so much for the support and cheers! The principal said they do the testing in April and we will have the results back before the end of the school year. I'll let you all know how it works for us.

On a side note, we have run into some interesting issues with MrWiggly, stuff I thought we were successfully avoiding. He has become very self conscious about being the youngest in his class. He told us that he has stopped telling his friends that he is 6, because they don't believe him and tell him that he "can't" be 6 in second grade. The problem is his birthday is coming up in two weeks. I asked him what he's going tell everyone and he calmly replied, "I'm going to say that I'm 8 because they already think that I'm 7!" Oh what a tangled web we weave! We've had a talk about how he can't keep that up and needs to be honest about his age, but he wasn't buying it. We'll have to keep working on that issue.

And, he also shared with us that there's a boy in his 2nd grade class who is teasing him and calling him a "nerd". Ugh. I had really hoped that this wasn't going to come up for much longer. I can't believe that he isn't even 7 yet and has been pegged by classmates. He hears me and his siblings talk about being geeks and nerds, but it is with love and affection for who we are, not the derogatory use of the words. So, we've had to have that talk, too.

I guess what I've read and heard is all true - it is a long journey with new things to address as you travel the road. Thanks to all of you for being here. Having this supportive community helps a lot.

My kids are required to test at the grade they're officially in for state-mandated tests. The results aren't available until August (isn't in strange that they test to assess the "year's" materia in Feb, when there are 3 months of school left? DS 9 came home saying he went blank on one math question--drawing a "net" of a figure. He found out later that it was how it would look when "unfolded" flat. I thought, why can't they say "what would a prism look like when unfolded flat?" instead of terminology ("net") that some kids aren't familiar with? Skipped kids are at a "disadvantage" because they may not have been exposed to this vocabulary, even though they could easily have answered the question, if asked clearly.

DS 9 has scored "advanced" in all areas (less than 2 % in our state). His first year testing, the teacher told me he wiggled and squirmed, and ended up laying on the floor to work on it (nice teacher to accommodate, eh?) DS 13 just had a week off high school because only the juniors are required to test and the tests are such high stakes now, they wanted to clear the school so there were no distractions. Does that sound like it's in the best interests of the students? That doesn't count the week off they had during the sophomores' HS competency exams!

RE:"Nerd". I am so disappointed that some things don't go out of mode. That word, from when we were kids, is so stupid. Remember Nancy Reagan's campaign about Just Say No. There should be a campaign about how It's Cool to be Smart. Girls especially are susceptible to downplaying their intelligence to be accepted--key argument in single sex education. It is a struggle socially for these kids because others actually want them to fail to prove they're human. Sometimes even teachers.

I don't like name-calling/labels entirely. I just had a "discussion" with one DS who uses the word "gay". He tells his brother "that's a gay idea" or "a gay somethingorother". I told him it was no different from being rascist or hateful of others because they're different. My morning tirade--people are no better or worse than one another based on skin color, sexual orientation, religion...then the MLK Jr bit about judging on the quality of character.

Great morning tirade, cym! I couldn't agree more.

Ooo yes cym! You go. I also couldn't agree more!

Testing now! How stupid!
What are they going to do for the next few months - coloring books :-) (well, my 7th grader does that in LA, so I should not be surprised)
This whole education is a huge mess for bright kids.
I wil repeat what I have said before - a misbehaving, difficult child will get a one on one teacher but my son might be send to after school detention for reading during Science, where his grade is 105% - A+ (granted, he never went to detention, but the teacher takes the book away every time he manages to sneak one from home . Can you imagine that I do forbid Ghost to take books that he is currenly reading to school !!! What kind of a mother am I?
Well, he can take one on Fridays, as it is a "reading day" in LA class - IN 7TH GRADE!!!)
Why do I have such high expectations???

Very interesting article in last month's Atlantic Monthly http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/miller-education arguing that schools should be nationalized (there shouldn't be local/state authorities causing such variation in education). I serve on a school board (charter school) and like our autonomy, but I absolutely understand the idea of centralizing (everyone should take the same, stupid annual test each year, not varying from state to state). Think of all the wasted resources in developing each test, grading them, analyzing data, etc. And that's just one aspect of schools.

what about just basics, like standard yrly test, benchmarks & standards--shouldn't every 4th grader be held to same standards? If we all have to adhere to No Child Left Behind as federally mandated and influencing so much of our kids' education, shouldn't that part be uniform? I wouldn't want to feds to dictate otherwise, but understand that most school boards are made up of ordinary people rather than professionals. These could vary in effectiveness.

I have very mixed feelings about standardization. If the standards guaranteed individualized education, I'd probably be on board. I'd love for local administrators to stop having their little petty kingdoms where their rule is law, even if their rule is dumb and bad for kids. Stupid seems to rise to the top, and I'd love to see the end of that.

However, I would frankly expect more crap (ala NCLB) out of standardization, not less. More bureaucracy rarely means a better fit for GT kids. They don't fit the standard, so standardizing tends to hurt them. I like that now there's at least a chance for a creative teacher to really teach a GT kid. I suspect standardization would go a long way to ending that possibility.

FWIW...

Part of why I'm involved in a charter school is exactly to get away from autocrats/bureaucrats. We've been revising our policy manual and first look at the district's. Their policy on reviewing books, videos, etc. that can be used in the classroom is monstruous--approvals needed, forms filled out, etc. We chose to delete all that from our policy.

I just thought the article on centralizing education was an interesting perspective, though I may not personally agree with the whole idea. One thing that I could see benefits from centralizing is the NCLB assessments. How do the feds say all students should be 100% proficient in reading, but each state can develop their own assessment? Doesn't that seem wacky? If you're proficient in NY, are you still proficient in CA? Of course I don't like the whole NCLB thing to begin with. I do see the article author's point about school boards and how Joe Blow school board member doesn't necessarily have qualifications.