Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Learning math

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I don't think that anyone would lose understanding when they practice something more. However, I do think that focus on rote learning can discard a lot of conceptual information that's important, and in addition I know from experience that gifted kids can quickly stop focusing when the material's boring.

I think it's okay for gifted teaching to be more conceptual. I think regular teaching ought to be that way, too.

I agree with you that no one should be given such a message. What a poor teacher she must have.

<Is this typical? Is it OK for GT math to be more mental problem solving, conceptual based?>

I don't know whether GT math is typically like that, but the school my kids currently attend does treat it sort of that way, yes.

Before grade 6 or so (depending on ability), there's lots of drilling on math facts to achieve a certain level of fluency. But that's only one piece of the math curriculum; a set of problem-solving textbooks from Singapore is another main piece. Students also start participating in Continental Math League and Math Olympiad problem-solving contests in 3rd or 4th grade.

After the students are proficient in the basics, problem-solving continues to be a big part of the curriculum, especially for the top ability group. The 5th-8th math teacher uses several of the textbooks from Art of Problem Solving along with Algebra or Geometry or whatever the kids are taking (they take online courses for everything above Geometry), and offers extracurricular practice in problem-solving as well, mainly to prepare for the AMC 8 and MathCounts competitions.

For what it's worth, I think my son was well-served by the EPGY math courses he took when he was 6. (He certainly would have been in danger of, as you say, 'having his potential killed by math class' if we had made him stick with what his school was requiring of him.) He had to get practice in the less-conceptual stuff elsewhere, but that doesn't seem to have held him back.

What did you mean by 'practice problems'? Are they in the area of problem-solving, or are they 'drill and kill' on basics? If the latter, maybe your daughter is frustrated by the repetitiveness and her frustration leads to mistakes.

I think that it's not that she's losing understanding, but that she's bored and losing focus/interest.

I would be very frustrated with the teacher's putdowns of math, too.

My daughter gets sick of hearing that math is "hard for girls" -- ugh. Before she moved into the gt classroom, DD10 would ask if she was doing something wrong because math was easy for her. We've had lots discussions about gender stereotypes and that maybe math was hard for the teacher to learn.

In the gt class, I've been hearing for years that DD could be going faster in math but they only accelerate one year. We tried EPGY but DD hated it -- not visual enough for her. Math is easy for her but hasn't excited her. The Investigations curriculum that she had for the past four years was repetitious and dull. This year her school changed curriculum and it has made a huge difference -- I think that it is called Connected Math. DD is excited about math for the first time. She actually comes home and talks passionately about things that she figured out in class that day.

Would they let your DD join the gt class? It might be worth observing and seeing if it truly is more conceptual and better fit. It sounds like she needs to get away from the currently math teacher.

this is a really interesting thread - although I am sorry MoN that your DD is going through this. And especially sorry about the teacher - they really do make all the difference.

I have a different version of this same question - my DS 5 is huge leaps ahead in reading and understanding concepts - particularly science - it is astounding to me sometimes the connections he makes. But I would not describe him as "mathy" and its unclear to me (maybe I should ask the gurus) what part of the testing shows innate math skills. But what I have noticed is that he learns math best by reading about it. Despite having a phenomenal memory he is not consistently right when doing simple adding and subtraction - and far too frequently says 5-1=5, although will count it off correctly. Yet he knows and understands from the sir cumference books and cyberchase and other places things like area, diameter and circumference. He just read a fabulous book, the cat in numberland, and is now getting placeholding and concepts like infinity.

He's only 5 and he obviously prefers learning facts and concepts within a story - and I wonder if gifted kids continue to need that - albeit not about cats! Someone, Grinity maybe recommended a private school in CT once for someone and in reading its website, it made the point that a lot of math concepts were developed for navigation, and so they teach it from that perspective. I understand that drill and that sort of skill is necessary, but I wonder if perhaps Knute you can give her the relevance while she is doing this stuff in school - maybe that would make it not so horrible? Although if it is the teacher not sure it would help.

Not sure any of this was helpful, sorry!!

DeHe

Can she be moved to GT 6th grade math?
G-girl

Have you read Developing Math Talent? They say it's extremely common for really mathy kids to lag in computation compared to their grasp of the concepts. My DD is learning to add fractions at the same time as she memorises her addition facts to ten and her times tables.

Still - ((pout)) it's too bad, isn't it?

I just don't understand this mentality.

Last night dd practiced multiplication facts and then read from her new book Calculus for By and For Young People.

The poor kiddo started having to do times table drills in K when she moved to 3rd grade math, then again in 1st because she didn't master them the year before, then again last year in 2nd when she moved to 4th grade math because she had not yet mastered them. Earlier this year she was in 3rd for most of the day and had to go back and do addition fact timed drills as past of the standard 3rd curriculum even though she was in 5th grade math. Now she has been moved to 4th grade (and further accelerated in math) and has to catch up on her multiplication table tests as part of regular 4th... So we are trying once again.

The last thing the 3rd grade teacher told me on dd's last day of 3rd grade before the winter holiday was that dd would not pass 3rd grade math until she mastered her addition timed tests. How can you not "pass" 3rd grade math when you are enrolled in a higher level math class? I just walked out the door without commenting.

Last thing I heard, she has an A in her math class and is on track for advancing next year. The kid needs an award for continuing to have a positive attitude about practicing her facts.

I'm glad we are all in this together!