Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Why Chinese Mothers are Superior.....(WSJ article)

I'm wondering what people think of this article (link below)... It is actually the complete opposite of what I have thought was good for children so it really made me think... I have always thought - Don't push kids.. let them find their own passion... have I got it all wrong?

http://professional.wsj.com/article...HTTopCarousel_1&mg=reno-secaucus-wsj

I think it's scary that she's a professor of American law at yale. I don't think she's trying to tell you how to raise your kid's. She straight out says you ain't got it in you to do it that way and if you tried you would only be half arsing it. YMWV

P.s. Besides raising two beautiful daughters she has also written several books, the latest of which this NY times article is a marketing ploy to sell.

PPS still working my way through the comments. The law she teaches is international contract law. This is her second book. Her first was about international policy's. This parenting the american geisha memoir was auctioned to a publisher for six figures. She had to make the WSJ article spicy to sell books.
PPS Entertainment Weekly gave her book a "B". Ouch.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20455695,00.html

I came across it the other day and actually stoped to read it since DD is half asian (Dh is Korean) and we constantly here somethikng about DD "of course being smart because she's asian."

So anyway, from what I took from it, was that she pushed her kids and they did great, and hosnestly we have a lot of Chinese friends and they do push there kids, and they kids seem happy. I push DD more then Dh probably would like, but I think there is a balance. Push a kid to much and you set them up to fail, push a kid in the right way and you give them the opportunity to rise to the occasion. Just my opinion, and believe me I could be totally wrong. Just going on my own upbringing. LOL

I think the point that she is trying to sell books is a good one. And she has gotten quite a bit of attention writing this provocative little article! I've seen this now posted on 3 different boards I visit.

I think as parents, unless you are 100% unschooling, we all require different things for our kids to do. It's a matter of tone and degree. I homeschool and I have been on unschooling boards. People post every single day that they are failing at unschooling and their lives have become utter chaos. BUT there are absolutely families for which that choice will be the right one. I think it require a certain kind of adult and a certain personality of child to be really successful. By degree we are laid back homeschoolers. I require some math, writing, and reading daily. But we aren't doing things like latin for an hour every day. Some homeschooling families are nose to the grindstone for 6 to 8 hours a day and that seems to work for them.

I have kids that would try or do very little without quite a bit of encouragement, at least at the preschool/early elementary ages. My brand of "encouragement" looks almost nothing like this article. I have a child working on piano, and he worked on pieces of similar difficulty at age 7. If he would have a hard time with something (physically or even just the mental angst of trying something different or hard), I would have made a deal that we would work on small passages and try the same passage 5 or 10X a day for a few minutes and be done. I might have played the other hand with him. I made have made funny donkey noises while we did it! My kids bask and really enjoy their successes. But really do need help getting over the initial hump. They both tend to be highly sensitive and dramatic and they need someone to remind them that change and trying something new might feel strange and uncomfortable, but it's important to try anyway. If my kids try something and absolutely end up hating it, I back off. I was a child that was paralyzed by my own fears of trying something new and it's not a good feeling. At age 10, my son has become much better at facing his fears and anxiety on his own. I was not doing the same at age 10.

I just think we need to know our own children. I think it's amazing if you have an entirely self motivated child who challenges themselves, but that is definitely not who my kids are.

Goodness! I wonder what this method does to children who really can't perform to the parents expectations (don't have the motor skills etc). I wonder how the suicide rate of children reared in this manner compares. I also wonder how teamwork and compassion for others can exist when everyone has to be the best or be considered a failure.

If you raise your child to only know happiness as a direct result of pleasing you, I am sure they will respond accordingly, just like a circus animal. But does this allow them to think for themselves or find their true passion?.

I grew up in a the extreme opposite environment: no expectations or pressures whatsoever. I went to a school where lesson attendance was completely optional. Some kids never went to classes at all but we all eventually found our passions and skills in our own time. It's not for everyone but it can work. Maybe we didn't become child prodigy's, but we became successful members of society.

I know out of my small cohort we have some dentists, chiropractors, investment brokers, editors, restaurant owners, business owners, IT professionals, business managers, activists, talented musicians, chefs, photographers, playwrights, cinematographers, authors, artists etc. We got to enjoy our childhoods while learning how to think for ourselves and get along with others.

I agree with with amazedmom: "Push a kid too much and you set them up to fail, push a kid in the right way and you give them the opportunity to rise to the occasion." I have found that as an adult, I have immensely enjoyed opportunities to rise to the occasion when they occurred in the work place, so I imagine it would be similar for children.

Just my 2 cents

Remember that the governor of PA wrote that "we were a nation of wusses" when they cancelled the Eagles game on 12/26 due to the noreaster? He said the Chinese would have marched to the game doing calculus while they marched.

I think there is a school of thought that our attitudes that everything will be fine and we are entitled to a good life, however we get there, is the main problem. We want medicare and social security but do not want to pay for it.

We want a good life, but don't make me the one to sacrifice. And it scares me that the opportunities that were pretty plentiful when I was growing up was an abberation. They didn't exist for the average child in 1900 and will continue to diminish in availability as we go forward.

I posted a response to Jacks'mom, who graduated Harvard medical school and commented on the lack of ability, aside from rote memorization of her Asian counterparts in medicine. My response was, yeah, like Sanjay Gupta. Here is a classic example of immigrant Asian parents pushing their child into science, technology -- like fields where they got jobs -- got his 2 degrees in 7 years. Was he the only brilliant neurosurgeon? But his work ethic gave him opportunities, and he had the ambition to pursue them. And he seems like a pretty happy guy.

One example, but I only have the famous to choose from. LangLang has told horrid stories about his father pushing him but he did perform with his father at Carnegie Hall, he loves his career and is now happy that his father did push. He spoke how difficult the teenage years are for prodigies, I know 2 who quit in their teenage years, one was a protogee of Bernstein and performed with the Pops very young. Langlang talks about how his father pushed him through those difficult times and he has probably one of the most brilliant classical music careers ever.

I think that the children of immigrant parents generally push themselves more, get the grades, push for success their parents expect in education and now seem to take most of the spots in professional and post grad schools. In my most humble opinion, the children of successful parents generally are pretty lazy, have low expectations from their parents about working hard so that their habits become hardly working. In DH's circle of Harvard and Yale grads, very few have their kids accepted to those schools, except one family -- Jewish, but more on the "Chinese" model than the western.

I spoke to a mother yesterday about the article, she had read it. She is Harvard undergrad, Columbia law. Her daughter is in an accelerated gifted program. She said she is mixed about the view. Her daughter does violin and ballet, and the rest of the time is homework. She also thinks there are growing limited options and she thinks the "Chinese" model has better outcomes for the child.

Except for the anecdotal, are these children are happy or not happy when they grow up?. In general, how do you actually measure who is happier? I do know that when DD and I get over the fights at the piano when she plays a new piece, and she gets it (just like the story in the article) she goes to the piano and plays it on her own. She loves to get dressed up and perform at the recital or concert. Her self esteem grows significantly when she accomplishes something that she first fought me on and then worked through and achieved. Way more than the things she could more easily do and found "fun".

I also think, another one of my most humble opinions, that a child that challenges themselve, learns the behavior. Learns the reward of the challenge. DD challenged herself very young because she wanted something, like climbing up to a slide -- and the steps were more than half her height but now she is too logical and too spoiled to push herself. Though it seems that as she has learned the challenge of learning more complicated pieces, or practicing the back bend everyday for gymnastics, she is fighting me less and push herself more. Maybe I will get to that self motivated kid. If it happens, I will post.

Ren

Different culture! It makes me think of the little Chinese boy in my son's gifted class who is a "B/C" student. The article says this doesn't happen to Chinese kids. hmmmmm.

The article also says kids don't want to work...I have to disagree with that one...my son is a natural workaholic.

kcab, I personally don't condone the kind of treatment that Amy Chua describes in her article:

"I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts."

This.is.not.okay.

I'm not going to go all wishy-washy and chalk it up to "cultural differences" or "parenting styles." It's not okay to treat another human being this way. It's abusive.

Here's a well-considered response to Amy Chua. I think it's worth reading.

http://contrapuntalplatypus.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/a-3rd-way/

I read it and it was a good response. She described well where she agreed and disagreed.

Unfortunately, the latter part described a teacher we wish we had for our children in all subjects but doesn't come around very often.

We first had a piano teacher for DD, when 4, that pushed her with pieces and her technique was terrible. And when we switched and she had to spend 3 months changing her technique -- she was horrible to deal with during piano because she wanted to play those flashy pieces, fast. Then last summer we spent the summer learning to read music, in turn she had only scales and simple pieces to practice -- my choice and that was torture -- for both of us. But now, coming out the other side she is reading music on her own initiative, when she has to figure out where she is in a new piece.

Though I can totally relate about her not playing the flashy pieces for a while. I caught myself thinking that I want her to play fast and complicated (to show her off?). Luckily I caught myself, but showing off your kid is an easy trap/addiction. And when we are at gymnastics and she cannot do something the top kids in the class can do (and I sit with those mothers) I feel myself having a wee bit of discomfort -- I catch myself and allow it, since I have so many moments where she does excel and had proud moments after a ballet recital where other parents and just observers approach me about her. But those moments at gymnastics where she is clearly not the best, it is hard on some level internally.

I can relate to parents wanting them to be the best, to achieve. I don't want to abuse my kid and certainly let her get water or go to the bathroom, even in mid piano practice. I have a clock, I know how long we are at it. But I do set goals for her and give her incentives -- fancy dresses are in vogue now for rewards. Because they are extracurricular goals. She doesn't get dresses for getting her homework done, but for working at a piece for a piano concert, yes.

Ren

It sounds like you have successfully avoided one of the major minefields for music parents. Often that desire to show children off, or simply to see tangible progress, causes parents and teachers to push children to play flashier pieces than their technique can support. Your DD will be far better off having put in the time to correct her technique and work on music reading. And when you think about it, the idea of comparing musicians by the what piece they are playing is absurd. The question is--how well/beautifully/musically can they play it?