Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Piano lesson complaining - LONG

I think sometimes we get so caught up in analysing the situation, we miss the point. If the child is so unhappy, why continue? It seems like he has learned the basics and perhaps without the structure of lessons, he will find the freedom to explore the piano on his own? Perhaps there is another instrument or skill he wants to pursue?

I agree. I can sort-of see a couple of the arguments used here (e.g. "We see piano as a curricular activity"), but I also know that forcing kids to do extracurriculars that they don't like makes them resentful, and more likely to avoid the activity. People could make a counter-point that that if they let their kids pick everything, they'd eat popcorn for dinner, but in this situation, this argument seems to be a bit of a straw man to me.

Is the piano an extra subject on top of a full school day or is it incorporated into it? If the lessons are just part of a school day, then they're obviously curricular. Either way, I can see that parents can see lessons as important and enriching. But when the child consistently complains about hating the lessons and/or cries often, I begin to wonder about the point of continuing.

(Using "he" as a universal pronoun below)

I'm not sure that the benefits of perseverence can become apparent when a child is learning something extracurricular because his parents are making him learn. In this case, what's the goal? To be exposed to music? To become more cultured? To gain fine motor skills? To become a competent piano player (how do you define competent?)? How do you measure these things? Plus, most importantly, who sets the goal?

If the child wasn't interested in the goal to begin with, how (or why) would he see himself as persevering to get it? Why would anyone persevere to get something that has no meaning to them in any form, and gives no apparent benefit (such as a grade or paycheck)? Besides, perseverence is internal: people persevere because they want something. When mom and dad are making the child play the piano, the child isn't persevering --- the parents are. Being forced is NOT persevering.

If the goal is to enrich the child, there must be a way to find something that both the parents and the child find acceptable.

Okay, just my two cents. I am not trying to attack anyone here or be mean. I'm just trying to offer a different perspective.

Val

I will offer my experience and not my advice.

My DD6 (almost 7) takes piano lessons, and she has since she was 5. DS3 will take piano lessons, maybe starting next year. Piano lessons are not optional in our house. We consider it a part of a well-rounded education. If the kids want to switch to another instrument (or voice)in middle school, when school lessons are offered, then they may. DH and I also take piano lessons, BTW.

DH grew up in a musical family and took piano for just a couple of years and then switched to trumpet and baritone horn. He was/is a gifted musician, but his career is not in music. I took piano for a few years, but did not mesh well with my teacher and quit. I moved on to voice lessons in MS and HS. Music is not my talent, but I enjoy it and value the experience. I also love the piano and enjoy taking lessons as an adult, even if I suck at it.

DD clearly has DHs talent. She goes through spurts of liking to practice and spurts of complaining. But she does LOVE to perform. Oh, does that ever motivate her! The periods in between recitals and competition she will express not wanting to practice or go to lessons. She knows it isn't an option- it is like school. You just do it because it is important to learn.

We feel like she can make the choice as she approaches middle school age. Until then, we make the choice for her. Her other after-school activities are HER choice. But not piano. That's what works for our family. I do think it helps that we all practice and play- hearing mommy make mistakes and curse her fingers and try again is always reassuring;-)

I think one reason for this disagreement comes from thinking that kids complaining about a piano practice are necessarily doing something they hate. My kids do lots of things that made them cry at least once including swimming, music, sports, math, and school. I'm certainly not going to let them quit everything that ever made them cry. Most recently, I had kids sobbing in frustration about not being able to ski perfectly during morning ski school and laughing giddily while flying down the mountain by the early afternoon. Should I have let them quit when they were crying in the morning? It is pretty natural for a kid to resist discipline and structure and it doesn't mean the kid hates the activity. It seems pretty normal to me to be frustrated by things that take a great deal of effort before there is much payoff.

As I mentioned, my DD just quit piano because I don't think she loved the activity. But I have a son who sometimes doesn't want to practice and I would be very reluctant to let him quit because I believe he demonstrates an overall love of music. He composed all summer in his free time. He enters competitions with performance and composition. He requested a music theory tutor. He reads music history and theory for fun. He performs. He seeks better instruction despite longer lessons and needing more practice. He's chosen multiple instruments which requires more practice. Does he love practice every single day? No. Has he ever cried while practicing? Yes. There are days he'd rather play video games all day without needing to do math, practice, or take out the garbage, but that doesn't mean he hates music or his instruments or that he's being tortured by being asked to keep up with the commitments he's made.

I actually discussed this thread with him. He believes that music has little payoff in the beginning and much greater rewards later, so he thought there needed to be a nudge towards working early on before the kid can see the benefits. There's nothing very pleasant about playing or listening to Mississippi Hotdog! Once a kid can join an orchestra, compose and perform his own stuff, play any popular song he likes, please himself with the sound he makes and the technical ability he's developing, the rewards seems pretty obvious to me. Is it worth forcing a kid who hates it to do it for years? I don't think so -- but it's worth it for us to provide some structure to practice and encouragement that means allowing a kid to cry occasionally while getting to the level the kid can appreciate.

Someone asked "why the arts, why music?" - here's my answer: I've long seen it as my duty to provide a variety of experiences to my children in order to send well rounded adults out into the world. Music, art, athletics, hobbies, community service - all come into play alongside academics. Thus our family rule has been one sport, one musical instrument and one class of some form of art as one of the high school electives. What a child chose was up to them, but once they committed to something they had to finish it before quitting and moving on to something else.

This is a compilation of studies that might interest you: (http://www.ericdigests.org/2004-3/cognitive.html) Studies have shown that music enhances cognitive abilities, and beyond the benefits in the "academic" realm, the ability to create music is a good emotional and artistic outlet.

And as parents of gifted kids, I do think it's important to differentiate between the whining and complaining that comes with kids for whom almost everything ordinary comes far too easy and in persisting in pushing a child to continue something that has become a major conflict for little valuable outcome.

I really admire the OP for having the courage to not only recognize in herself that this issue was something that she needed to explore but for reaching out to others for input in making her decision about how to move forward. We can't always reach out to our friends because we seem like a real diva of a parent when we talk about why we want to push our kids in ways that a parent of a kid with an average IQ would not consider. It's a tough call - every time we face this delimma with our kids as they mature and try new experience - and it comes with no easy answers.

Quite. It sounds as though the OP's child would actually prefer to give up and that makes it to me an extreme case where I wouldn't want to go. But my DS7 sometimes cries over his piano practice and I sit there and make him do it. If I ask him whether he'd rather give up piano, his answer is always an emphatic No. He understands that a condition of continuing to have lessons is that he practise daily and properly. If he complained daily, I'd probably take the choice out of his hands and stop arranging lessons for him. But as long as he consistently says he wants to continue, and only sometimes complains about practice, I see helping him through that intermittent reluctance as just part of parenting, and something that's useful when I need something to remind him that hard work isn't always fun but does pay off.

Is there really nothing he enjoys at all? What does he do when his time is his own? From my perspective if a kid genuinely doesn't enjoy anything the best way to deal with that is not forcing them to do an activity while they cry and telling them the only way they are allowed to quit is if for an entire month they stop being honest about the fact that they hate it. It seems that could actually have a chilling effect making a child nervous to try new things knowing their cries won' t be listened to and the only escape is to be dishonest about how they feel.

While certainly in adult life we all face stuff we don't enjoy and we find a way to work through it, I don't think we have to wait for adult life for that to happen. Even for the most gifted of kids ANY activity they sent their mind to is going to involve some need to work and find ways to persist through challenges. It isn't just learning the violin. Ordinary childhood play offers plenty of opportunities. I'm talking about stuff like: learning to knit, skateboard jumps, building the biggest lego tower you can, jumprope, building a fort, trying to dam a creek, baking, putting on a play with your friends, finding new ways to torture your sister. Other than electronics what are the childhood activities that involve no opportunities to learn and grow?


So, in other words learning more gymnastics skills isn't improving his attitude or his willingness to persist. Just like when he began the class he conceives of himself as a person who can't do things unless forced. He still sees people who teach him as mean (and really not surprising - if somebody ignored me when I was crying I wouldn't trust them or think they were kind either!) So, what exactly is being accomplished? Is the plan forever to force him to do one thing after another until what?


From my perspective force and raising the stakes only make perfectionism worse. Gentle support, promoting accurate self understanding, etc. all work better.

One thing I've always wondered about... Why music rather than art? Many people see it as a standard necessity that kids learn an instrument but very few people mandate drawing or dance lessons. Why is that?

I see a big difference between force and supporting a child to achieve her goals. Force is: you can't quit, you will be lazy if you don't work harder on this, until you stop saying it is hard you aren't allowed to quit, etc.

Supporting can come in other forms such as: encouraging the student to talk to the teacher about what is frustrating them, providing a home environment that supports practice - time in the daily schedule and a quiet place to practice, offering to be an audience or cheerleader, offering encouraging words, reminding the student of their goals. Most of all I would encourage parents to talk with the student's teachers when something isn't working and let the teacher problem solve with the student. Some teachers are better than others at teaching effective practice skills. It isn't just time on task but knowing how to keep engaged with really listening to yourself and knowing how to improve.

Why the assumption that it is either or? Though my DD is only 4 she has a love for dance, drawing/art of many types, and the piano. I think it is important to provide opportunities for her to explore. Her Christmas was full of many art supplies and she was thrilled to get them.