Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Test Results Interpretation Assistance Please

Hi all! New here. I have read through the topics and see that others have provided input on test score results, and thought if anyone has input I would appreciate it.

Background: My DD is 10 and in 5th grade in Florida. She started school in NY (where her Nov. 30 birthday was the cutoff, so she is young in her grade). She was tested and received a perfect admission score on the test administered (she was recommended to preschool due to age, however DH and I decided to send her to K). We moved to FL after K, where it was immediately recommended that she repeat K based only on her age. Other than handwriting weakness, she had no issues, and was reading at a 3rd grade level, so we declined. She moved through 2nd, 3rd with no referral to gifted, however she always had top grades and was often bored with her work. 3rd grade in FL students take FCAT, where she had high 5 (top) scores. At the beginning of 4th grade, her science/math teacher told me that she believed that DD was obviously gifted and was surprised that she had not been recommended for testing before. Her "main/assigned" teacher was responsible for referral however, and agreed. Main teacher did not process the referral until end of school year, on which she wrote "DD cries easily." Teacher retired at end of year and I received copy of referral after end of school year, so I never determined what that meant.

At end of grade four DD did an evaluation (I wasn't provided the name of the test) that determined her be be at a 123, with FL having a cutoff of 125. Since she was over 120, she was referred for additional testing. Her 4th grade FCAT results are also 5's, and from what I can determine from the results, she got 1 reading question and 2 math questions wrong.

Last month, she was pulled from class to do a KBIT-2. She said she tested for around an hour, and was returned to class. The tester later returned and pulled DD from class a second time because, according to DD, "she forgot to finish the test." The second part of the test took around a half hour, according to DD. Yesterday, she had an envelope sitting on her desk with results. One page of the discussion of results is missing, and I called for it to be sent home today.

DD did not qualify for gifted program, with following KBIT-2 results:
V=134
NV=112
IQ-127

DAS II is 119 (90th percentile)

Verbal cluster of 133 (it is different on 1st and second page?) states very high 99th percentile, with a T-score of 77 on word definitions and a T score of 63 on verbal similarities.

Non verbal cluster score is 107 (average 68th percentile), matrices T-score 58 (above average) and sequential and quantitative reasoning T-score of 51 (average).

Spatial Cluster score is 109 (average 73rd percentile). Recall of designs T-score is 53 (average) and Pattern construction T-score is 58 (above average).

The discussion regarding the "significant discrepancy" between verbal and nonverbal is the page I am missing.

I am requesting assistance with interpreting these results, because I have a very negative history with the elementary school. I have an older DD who has moved to middle school, and it will be a relief when this DD moves to middle school as well.

I am frustrated that it took them so long to test her, that when they did, it appears (to me) that the test was improperly administered (or is not completing the test normal? DD was a bit upset about that on the day of the test). I am concerned that the test date is wrong on the paperwork returned to me, that a page was missing and the manner in which I was notified, and that there was never any discussion with me about the results. There is a form with committee signatures indicating that the student study team met, but I was not notified and have not had the opportunity to ask about the results.

My main concern at this point is that she is 99th percentile verbal, but I have no information on how to work with her/provide for her in this area. Even if she is not gifted overall by the school definition, she appears to me to be gifted (or whatever terminology would be correct) in this area. What are my options for her? Suggestions please?

DD is disappointed to not be able to attend the REACH (gifted) program at her school. She is a great kid, and I am proud of her without regard to these results, but I want to understand the results better. She exhibits nearly all the behaviors of a gifted child as I have seen them here and on Hoagie's site, so I was a bit surprised that she did not fall within the gifted category. Should I have her privately evaluated? Should I wait until she is in middle school and ask for her to be tested again? Do I have her take advanced classes rather than gifted, and consider the subject closed? (I would never want her to feel that DH and I don't think she is "good enough" as is, so I am not sure about retesting).

To any and all who stuck with me through this and respond to my extremely long post, I thank you in advance!

Wow Bam,
I can sense your frustration right through the computer screen. Each child is precious and I wish that each child was treated that way more often. If you are feeling mad at yourself for not doing more sooner - please stop blaming yourself. You did the best you knew at the time. But lots of us slip into kicking ourselves from time to time - if company helps, you have lots of it.

Private testing might give you some answers. Would the school allow admission to the gifted program based on private test scores? If so, it certianly seems worth a try.

An alternative is to get both kids involved in Regional Talent Search testing - less expensive, and if they qualify it opens up weekend and summer and year round online learning activities. (that would probably be SAT for your older daughter, and SCAT or Explore for your younger) - the idea of the talent search is to compare the whole pool of 'bright or beyond' kids to each other.

I would find that 4th grade Science/Math teacher and ask that teacher for help. Sometimes they can 'bend the rules' and allow a child to take gifted classes even if their scores are on the other side of the cutoff.

In the end, the most important thing is to try to determine what your daughter's social and educational needs are, and see if modifications are needed to meet her individual needs.

Keep posting - I'd love to hear how things are going.
Love and more Love,
Grinity

Hi Bam! I too can feel your frustration with the entire process of testing you have been through. I am also in FL so thought I would provide a little insight that I know from my school district. Our district just uses the DAS II for gifted testing. There is a short screening test that is used to determine if children should be allowed to even take the DAS II. In 2nd grade all children are given the Naglieri as a screening test. If they are recommended in a different year, I don't know what the screening test is called, but it takes less than 15 minutes. The DAS II takes about 1 1/2 - 2 hours to administer. My children were given the test in one sitting. If you look on the Florida Department of Education website, it has the requirements of gifted testing/notifications etc. There is a requirement that parents give permission for the testing. Once the results are obtained, the results are given in a group meeting with the gifted specialist, school psychologist, and teacher. The school must provide notice of this meeting in writing to parents. I can't believe that you just received a report sent home. I would certainly set an appointment with the school to go over results and see what suggestions they have.

The FCAT results are not necessarily correlated to IQ testing as they are testing material that the child should have learned during the grade they are in.

Our school district allows a child to be tested once per year for the gifted program and I believe this comes from the state policy on gifted testing. It certainly does not hurt to try again. The state also allows the use of outside testing. Each district must have a slightly different cut off though as ours is 130 for the gifted program. They do offer children who come from under-represented populations to qualify for the gifted program with a score of 120.

In our district once a child is in middle school the gifted program is quite different. My son takes advance classes in middle school but they are open to anyone depending on a child's FCAT scores and grades. The state also has the GEM math program, which allows them to take two HS honor classes while in middle school, but this too is just dependent on FCAT scores. He does not really receive any services from his being gifted in middle school nor are his classes just gifted children. I would certainly look into what the middle school would offer based on the "gifted" label before I pursued paying for outside testing.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the same state info. Since my original post was so long, I left out that I did give permission when requested, and DD did do the first 15 minute screening, which she was high enough for additional testing and led to the KBIT-2, but not for admission to the program. My concern is that I did not receive notice of the student study team meeting, so I have not been able to ask any questions. Due to VERY poor relationship with school (if I need to attend a meeting, other than with the teacher, I request that a board member be present, as there has been nastiness with the principal. Sad but true.) I would rather not go to a meeting at the school, and believe that my notice to the meeting was conveniently "lost". That is why I am concerned with (what I think is) the testing discrepancy (is is really possible that the administrator "forgot" to finish the test?), the fact that I did not receive the entire report, and that there are errors on the report (her grade is incorrect, testing dates are inconsistent within the report). How do I know that the rest is correct?

The form returned to me regarding the meeting has an N/A for parent signature. I suppose there is no way around scheduling and attending a meeting, but it would have been nice to have been asked to attend the meeting prior to the denial. I am very prickly about this school, and I tried very hard to stick with facts, even though my frustration clearly came through.

I do understand that FCAT results don't correlate, and was trying to provide background. We would not be in an under-represented group, and my concern is more that she wasn't tested properly, and that I don't have the information to formulate a plan for her moving forward. If she doesn't meet the school gifted guidelines that is fine, but she did score high for verbal, and I would like to have a way to work with that information.

I think you are correct that there won't be much of a difference for her once she starts middle school. She is interested in a magnet school that has a pre-IB program, and she is excited to participate if approved for the magnet school. She is in PRIMES this year, and is looking forward to doing GEMS math next year.

I would need to weigh the benefit of additional testing. Just writing it all out helped me work through some of the issues. Thank you for your level-headed, informational response and for "listening". Happy Holidays to you and everyone else who has taken the time to read and to those who have taken the extra time to respond.

BAM, If you look on the state website you will also see how the notice of meetings must be provided. Once they give you a notice, they are required to get a response from you if you are attending in person, via phone, need an alternate date, etc. If they don't get a response, they are required to try once again. Just knowing what is required though and getting it to happen are two different things I know. It does sound like a really ugly school situation. I'm sorry. The IB program sounds promising. I hope she gets in. My son is in a magnet program and it has really been a postive experience in middle school. Best of luck in getting the answers you both deserve and need.

Happy Holidays to you BAM!
I can't tell you how often I've noticed folks around here saying how much they learned from themselves because they had a chance to write down their thoughts for a supportive audience who understands what they are going through. I mean it's great when we can provide that last bit of useful information, but even when we can't - it just amazes me how large a benifit folks get from being able to post. Yippee!
Grinity