Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice from the Parented

Hello,

I'm writing this because I'm a bit shocked that this site exists and is so busy, and appalled at many of the things said here.

I took the WISC test as a kid and was given a GAI of 150. What this got me was many years of being told that I was not living up to my potential, visits with multiple child/adolescent psychiatrists, prescriptions for two different ADD/ADHD drugs, more tests, more people telling me I wasn't living up to my potential (you can't get a B+ when you're gifted), meetings with teachers, meetings with guidance counselors, meetings with the principal/vice principal, more tests, more admonishing, and a lingering animosity towards my parents and many teachers at my high school.

When I see parents comparing their kids' IQ scores and recommending programs for six year olds it makes me sick. "Gifted" kids need stimulation, they need to be allowed to use their knowledge and intellect, they need to be able to satisfy their curiosity. What they don't need is to be assigned a number and a set of expectations, and put through a program designed to optimize their potential.

Now, not every kid is the same. Some may love and benefit from gifted programs and other curricula. The one "gifted" program I went to was the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth, and I enjoyed every single minute of it. But there, instead of being treated like smart kids, we were treated like kids, while being taught at a high pace. I'd recommend it highly.

One more thing. Your kid is not better than anyone else. I've seen enough people equating intelligence with superiority (including my family) to know that intelligence, like money, doesn't get you class.

I hope I don't sound too bitter or angry. I'm at a great school now (Carnegie Mellon), have lots of friends, fulfilling hobbies, and a much better relationship with my parents now that I am out of the house. But I can't say that how I got here was particularly enjoyable (or necessary), and I hope other kids don't have to go through the same crap I did (although I know they do).

I don't doubt your intentions. You love your kids, and you want what's best for them. So did my parents. My advice? Don't force your kids to do anything they don't want to do. If they don't like playing the cello, don't send them to cello lessons. If they don't enjoy soccer, don't make them play. Let them read upstairs a while, or run around with a video camera, or build a potato cannon (don't let them point it at their siblings, though). Believe me, it'll be a lot more fulfilling than making a sixth grader study for the SATs.

Every so often, a young or old adult wanders in here with a bunch of advice from a gifted child who's all grown up. One thing you may not understand is that a lot of the parents here have their own first-hand experiences about what it means to grow up gifted.

I agree with you that there's a bit of unhealthy comparison here on the basis of scores which are, after all, just numbers and imperfect predictors. My wife said once that some of the parents here treat their kids like show poodles.

I don't know how many parents here actually force their kids to do things they don't want to do, though. The thing about kids is that they will often get interested in things that are presented to them. Some of the parents here would be against their children doing anything in which their children weren't interested.

Believe it or not, I agree with you. I was a gifted child as well, and had a horrible experience trying to live up to expectations that were virtually impossible to meet. But that is part of the reason I am here. You are right - SOME people on here go a bit overboard with pushing their kids, in my opinion. But some, like me, are here to find the best ways to handle their own gifted children and avoid causing the same problems for them that we had as children. I don't know about everyone else, but I take everything that is said on here with a grain of salt. Some great ideas are posted on this board, but some really ridiculous things are also on here. We all have to use our brains and decide which ones make sense and which ones don't.

You do know there's kid's twelve and fourteen years old out there begging for food in the streets who are not able to get even a highschool education. Cello and soccer lessons are not the worst thing that could happen to a kid, ya know? I'm not trying to minimize your pain, brother, but I have read this site fir years and I don't see what anyone should find appalling. On one hand I do get what you're saying that parents are crazy when it comes down to it. My own mother would punish me if I got a "c" but my half sister was allowed to because "she's not as smart as I was". But now that we have kids my mom nags my sister for not working with my nephew because grandma insists the grandsons are equally smart. Even though that doesn't make sense, the kid's have different interest levels and personalities, and, finally, they're our kids to raise, not hers. She had her turn to raise her kids her way, now it's our turns. My own kid is more of a flea circus than a show poodle. Seriously, he just got a bicycle and he was instantly standing on the bar balncing on one foot and kicking neatly into the air with the other. Either way, 1) his dad and I agree to keep teaching him as much as he wants to keep learning. 2) to the best of my ability he will complete his education, then whatever he does after that will have been his choice and I will proudly support his decision. Even if he wants to be a surfer beach bum I will proudly point to him and say, "that is my son. He has earned his college degree. Now whatever he is doing with his life is because he chose to do it."
Anyway, I don't know if any of my feelings represent any part of what you were objecting to. You can hold onto some or all of those beliefs of yours when it comes time to raise your own children. There are people who raise their children grooming them for a certain life ;)and there are unschooling hippys who "let you be you and me be me", respecting even young children. I had believed when I was younger I would get my revenge on "the system" by having a dozen kids and raising them to think for themselves and turning them loose on the teachers in the public schools. Now I'm old and I have two kids and I don't want a dozen. It physically hurts and takes too long to make a baby. And I don't want to corrupt change the whole world like I used to. I just want to spend time and enjoy my family and entertain and educate my kids.

P.s. I feel like I've made some friends who "get me" here, which is something I find here and there, now and then. Though I do make all sorts of friends everywhere I go. Ain't it beautiful

Billy-
Your post sounds like you have a lot of personal regrets from childhood and that you were very frustrated by many experiences.

I am one of those parents that pushes my child. I do make him do things. I make him do his homework in nice handwriting, even when his teacher doesn't care. I make him learn to work hard, make mistakes, deal with it and move on. Perhaps you did not have the same experience, but for me as a gifted child, I did not make mistakes because work was never hard. Entering college, I had the harsh realization that I couldn't just do it on a whim without cracking open a book or taking notes during the lecture. This is the story of many, many gifted kids who were not taught to work hard.

Discussing IQ scores and programs is a way for us to add challenge, find organizations that understand how to work with our children and can enrich their education. You yourself have recommended CTY. I would not have known about it or been able to recommend it to my son without this group. It's not a way for us to rank, compare or shove our kids down some Ph.D by 8 path. I haven't seen anyone here like that.

Surely you must know that your GAI of 150 makes you very, very different in a classroom from a student with a GAI of 100. But how would we help our kids not feel that isolation and "weirdness" without discussing it?

Hello Billy! Well, I have to say that I DO respect your opinion and everyone elses on this site...Even though I might not always agree! Like everything, it's a balancing act. I was taken by surprise when you stated you were shocked that this site existed. THANK GOODNESS it does! I am one grateful mamma! This is the only place where I have found people who really seem to understand what mysef and my children are really going through. Seriously, I would be a complete mess if I had to figure out of the complexity of giftedness myself. I am so relieved to have finally found people who feel and have the same concerns as me, and to realize that I'm not completely nuts! There are many wonderful personalities here. You might be surprised to find yourself learning a thing or two!

Billy,
I too respect your opinions. I let my DS chase his whims all over the map but I also demand that he do his homework. Am I pushy? Sometimes. But I think it's about finding the right balance for the child in question. My son hates baseball, but I required him to play for one season anyway. Why? First, so that he would make his decision from an informed place and second because he needed to understand that his intellect doesn't make him better at everything than everyone else.
The parents on this board are doing the best they can with the situations they find themselves in. Are they always right? No, but unfortunately kids don't come with a manual.

Billy, I never wanted to do my homework, and because I didn't need to, my parents didn't make me. In the 70s there was no differentiation. If you'd finished your work you read your book. The result is that I still don't do anything that requires much effort, particularly if it doesn't inspire me. I am not good employee material.

Good parenting involves helping your children learn how to learn, how to rise to a challenge and yes, making them do things they don't want to do (like homework, making their bed and the dishes). I'm sorry you don't like your parents, but if they'd allowed you to do nothing would you be happier as a Walmart door greeter or with what you're doing now?

I would venture to say all of the parents on here had a childhood experience they're either trying to replicate or avoid for their own children.

Billy, you might find this article interesting.
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

Hi BC! Glad you hear that you are enjoying CMellon, and that you enjoyed CTY. My son is enjoying his summer CTY camps too. Did you ever consider returning as a camp counselor?

If you ever pop on and see anything I wrote that sounds like I'm equating intelligence to superiority, I'd love a private message about it, because I hope that I never sound like that. I don't even read that into other people's posts - so I guess it must me be - ((red face))

As far as angry and bitter - to me you do sound angry and bitter, mostly because I just don't recognize us in the ways you report reading us, so I'm assuming that your perfectionism is alive and well in high gear. Most books about perfectionism seem to me to address very well the part of perfectionism that gets turned inward, but believe me, there is usually a part of perfectionism that gets turned outward. We are generally a very idealistic bunch, and imaginiative, with good memories,so every mistake my parents made stands out to me in bold relief.

One thing that is true of me, and I assume is true of you, is that reaching greater levels of understanding is one of my key joys. So I invite you to spend some time here with an open mind and see if there is something to feel beyond shocked and appalled. That you've already noticed that we have good intentions tells me that the part of you that wants to learn more is greater than the part of you that wants complain.

You may want to take a look at my post http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ups_of_HG_parents_of_HG_k.html#Post90404
and ask you parents questions about their own gifted childhoods and see if you can figure out what drove them to some of the excesses and ridgidities that you ran into.

Sorry to give advice when you didn't ask for it, but, like you, I am impatient with the normal slow process of moving forward that sometimes just has to be 'good enough.' You can dish it out, let's see if you and take it and make good use of it, ok?

((wink))
Love and More Love,
Grinity