Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Ruf's book question

So this means, there is no stereotypical high IQ child? And yes, many will hit milestones at these points, but it not exclusive?

Alert, intensity, OK, but I wouldn't have noticed, I thought it was normal. It was the fact that strangers came up to me when she wasn't even 2 months old and commented about her intensity of observing the room.

What I am coming to understand is that DD3 is non-linear, like me, but also has a strong auditory capability like her father. She has to understand the whole picture (like on Elmo's world some small dark mark was on Elmo's door, what is that? That is the kind of thing I seem to ask) Yet her verbal skills were early and extensive, her ability to use language is like her father's.

The psychologist who tested her is a big IQ tester in NYC, so she has seen it all and so I trust her judgement that I have a remarkable child in abilities but it is hard to make that leap. Is it a fear that I will build up too many expectations? And down the road it will be a mistake?

I guess that was looking for the emotinal support I think many of you have gone through.

Ren

Interesting 'neato. Both my kids are like that. When I drop either of them off at school, the kids come running for them. It's especially interesting at my daughter's school. She is one of the youngest in her mixed age preschool class and even the oldest kids love her.

And I think I am that way too. I definitely crave my stimulating adult conversation. But I appreciate my alone time too.

That's how I read the book. These are case studies, not "rules of GTness." And her sample size was too small to say "This is true for all GT kids, no matter what!" She's offering generalizations based on her observations, but the point, I think, as delbows rightly pointed out, is to help parents to see that what we see as "normal" for these kids is NOT normal for most kids.



Yes, exactly! For my part, I thought nothing of my DS saying "BBBBB" when pointing to a "B" at 15 mos., but it totally freaked out the other moms in our Kindermusik class! It was perfectly normal for him, so I was really surprised by their *violent* denial of what was common behavior for him.

Ruf helped me to understand why the moms reacted as they did--DS was doing PG stuff! What was normal for DS was very much not-normal for most people. Aha! The light bulb came on for me.

When you live with these kids, I think GT denial becomes a way of life. Dottie and I (and others) are still struggling with it, despite everything we know and see.

I didn't mention this, and it's another whole can of worms, but I also felt like Ruf's book gave me permission to try other school options for DS. It made it clear to me that in our situation, public school--even in what's considered a "good" school system--wasn't necessarily going to be good for DS. This validated my feelings, gave me permission to skip advocacy, and allowed us to go straight to homeschooling and then a special arrangement with a GT school for part-time attendance next year. I think we saved DS a lot of heartache and me a lot of headache by not swimming upstream in the public school, and I'm not sure I would have been brave enough to do that if it weren't for Ruf's book.

Ruf's take on public schools is controversial. I just know that her take helped us.

Physical development (50% delay at 12 months) couldn't have assisted my son's advanced (50% advanced at 12 months) receptive and expressive language skills. The tester did say this was unusual. Luckily his motor dyspraxia (recently diagnosed) and hypotonia did not affect his speech and his verbal gifts have always stood out among kids his age and even kids several years older.

Well, I'm finally reading the Ruf book, and I was quite surprised by one comment she made. I think it was in the chapter on level 4's or level 5's. She said that a level 5 is equally high across the board and that a lot of level 4 and level 5 has to do with motivation and current circumstances, and that the levels can change over time. To me, this seemed like a strange thing to say in a scholarly book, like she was afraid to come out and take a stand without leaving some serious wiggle room. Isn't the point of having all those characteristics of levels of giftedness to give an alternative to just having hard test data? Isn't it a bit cowardly to come up with the five levels of giftedness and then to say well, it's not set in stone, your children may move from level to level depending upon their current environment and motivation? Are these really 5 levels of giftedness, or are they five levels of current knowledge and motivation? Maybe I misread it, but I found it a surprising comment. And please don't be offended by the word "cowardly," I meant it like wishy-washy, or unsure, or leaving herself an out for those who may disagree with her theory...

I have not read the book but I think that the list of characteristics of GTness are actually mixing Gifted and Talent.

For example, ability to decode abstract symbols is a GT characteristic. Ability to read is the talent.

Development of talents depends a lot on motivation, appropriate environment, etc.

I agree Dottie that it has to be in the way they think. But then I cannot figure out the difference in the levels, it is so subjective. I do see in DD3 that "what did you just say?" moments that really strike you. But I am not objective or knowledgeable enough to figure out if that is level 3 or level 5.

She isn't even 3.5 but she can read when she wants to. And she wants to when she wants to, not when I decide to put a book in front of her. She wants to have control over her abilities. She will do math when she wants to, do puzzles when she wants to. There is internal motivation, sometimes it is very strong, how do I measure that? How did Ruf measure it? She does not disclose her methodology. Doesn't even hint at it. Just provides a checklist that has a lot of overlap.

She says that level 3 can do the elementary curriculum in 2 years, a level 5 in one year. So in this group here, how many PG kids have done the elementary curriculum in 1 year? And moved through high school by the time they are at least 12?

She talks about middle school being kind of a wash for level 3s.

Any comments on how your kids have fared compared to her examples?

Ren

Intrinsic drive and motivation differentiates the level five from the other levels. That had always struck me as *the* major (additionally) Ruf characteristic for level 5, rather than an afterthought.

I think we all agree that nature and nurture each play a part in intelligence. Most of us probably believe that nature has a greater impact, but wouldn�t deny that nurture also plays a role. This motivation is influenced by opportunity, support and personality so it can vary greatly as a child develops. It makes sense to me.

Many of us are at this board for the very reason of seeking support and ideas to help keep our child/en interested and motivated at learning.

I understand the �grade school in two years� argument to mean if it were compacted, a level 4 or 5 could move through it in that time.

Most of us find that there are various different theories of intelligence measure which are more and less difficult to accept. For example, I find the idea of a GAI score to be somewhat controversial. It seems a bit like �rounding up� to me.

As for the Ruf levels, I think that there may be a pretty strong division between parents who �buy it� and defend the theory because their own children did meet the majority of her listed early milestones and those who question the validity because it does not meet their own children�s experience.

"Again, this is MY opinion and not meant to be offensive to anyone who has a different one."
I always forget this disclaimer, but ditto for my posts.

My daughter solidly met all level four milestones to six years. She also *had* the WISC-III full scale of 99.7 and one WIAT sub-test of >99.9, both at 7 years, but does not perform even near that level any longer. She has had a good, but not perfectly tailored education, has non-accommodated receptive and expressive language LDs and is more strongly motivated to fit in with her peer group than to delve into academics beyond her teacher�s expectations.

I guess this is an example of how these level can be rather fluid and why I believe that early identification (whether by Ruf level or IQ) is imperative to best ensure children meet their own highest level of potential.

delbows - great point on the drive and motivation. DS is SO not level 5. He seems to learn effortlessly. But does not forge forward into new material with great confidence and motivation at all. And like your daughter, IS motivated to fit in with his peer group.