Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Math acceleration -- age & abstract thinking

My 8 yr old son is in grade 4 in a combined 4th/5th class, having skipped a grade earlier. The teacher does a great job of ability grouping within the class, and he is with the 5th graders for most subjects including math. This is the first time these classes have been combined, and it's really working out beautifully for our son.

Usually the teacher moves the 5th graders with math averages >95% at the end of the first trimester to the next math book up (algebra 1/2 I think). She is changing the cut off this year to make it higher because she only used to give 1/2 credit back for corrections on homework but this year she's giving full credit. She'll either raise the average necessary or make the cut-off on tests only (where kids can't do corrections).

Our son really wants to be in the group that moves up. His current average is 96%, with a 94% on tests. So we're not sure at this point whether he'll qualify --could go either way. Walking into parent-teacher conferences my husband and I were split on whether or not it is a good idea. I am concerned about workload, but my husband thought he should be able to go for it if he wants to.
In conferences, the teacher expressed a desire not to have him move up even if he does make the cut. Her rationale was that while he'd be fine THIS year, next year (when he'd be in algebra) the concepts start getting very abstract, and since his chronological age will be so young that his brain won't be ready to handle it.

So, two questions I'd love some thoughts on:
1) can parents of kids who've been through this validate her logic? Do young kids do fine accelerated in math until the concepts get abstract, and then hit a wall until their brains mature a bit more?
2) how should we handle this with our son? He wants this very badly (he talked about it again yesterday) and he's done everything right in order to earn it. If he doesn't make the cut off that'd be an easy conversation. But if he does...

Thanks for your help!

Our son really wants to be in the group that moves up.

DS7 is in a pre-algebra class. He has run into some issues with the "abstract" in terms of solving word problems. He doesn't have any trouble with the math itself, but there are times when working word problems that he has a hard time setting up the problem.

I was told that this is because of his age and non developed abstract thinking. I would ask your son to do a few word problems and see if he has an issue with setting up the problem. The most important part of all this is my opinion is your son. If e really wants to do this, and shows you that he has some abstract thinking, then go for it! It seems as if we spend half our time chasing down challenges for our kids, this seems like a great opportunity.

My 8 year old, like yours, is in a 5th grade class for math. It is pretty apparent he is ready for pre-algebra and he already is pretty comfortable with basic algebra equations and word problems- his teachers have not expressed any concerns about him hitting algebra too early (although I think it would end up being a year behind your DS). Anyway, there is an 8 year old in our district currently doing Algebra and he is doing great. Like any developmental milestone some kids will get there before others - I do agree with Shari that is would be good to see where he is with the material - there are assessment devices that measure if a child is ready for the "concept" part of algebra I believe.

I think CTY or EPGY or something like that says that kids should generally not start algebra before age 10. But some kids are just ready.

Kids hit develop abstract reasoning skills at different ages. The age that many children think abstractly may have nothing to do with your son - he may already be there. We radically accelerated in math. Well into college math I can report that for our child there were no downsides at all. There was never a wall or if there was he gingerly hopped right over it and nobody even noticed.

The decision to accelerated should be made on an individual basis looking at your son's abilities and performance. Age should have nothing to do with it.

If he makes the cutoff, he should move up--that's what cutoffs are about!

As for brains and abstract thinking, well, the whole point of "gifted" is that your brain is ahead of where brains normally are at your chronological age. If he's worked through all the stuff leading up to algebra, it's not a huge leap to algebra itself. Algebra is not a foreign language, and kids have already learned the idea of variables along the way, whether they called it that or not. He'll be fine. I have an 8-yr-old doing algebra, too.

I think that sounds like a teacher who doesn't really understand a true gifted child. Based on chronological age? If the child is showing mastery, he's ready to move on. If nothing else, rather than holding him back if he is ready, why not do it on a trial basis and see how it goes. My DD was grade skipped and all of the reserach we did before hand stated it's not uncommon for knowledge gaps to exist but the difference is that a gifted child can learn those things within a short amount of time and it shouldn't be an issue. I think he should go for it, if he qualifies, and if something becomes a challenge, you can work with him on it at home. I wouldn't hold him back because of a WHAT IF. We haven't had any knowledge gaps so far and I think we'll be in a boat again where we'll have to decide if we move forward or what we do next. You can't make this assumption based on ALL children not being able to think abstractly at a certain age, but rather, what is YOUR child ready for.

I agree, and have seen no sign whatever of an "algebra wall" with my DS. The only time I remember him having trouble with setting up problems was when he was working with percentages and the problems involved discounts, tax etc., of which he had no experience IRL - I had to explain what the words meant (and he still made slips, having no feel for them).

My 8 yo finds the abstract thinking easier than the computational stuff.

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. What a wonderful resource this discussion board is!

Does anyone know any specifics about the assessment devices that Catalana mentions?

Even though we're talking about a hypothetical risk one year from now and it's not like we're going to plop him into full algebra tomorrow, perhaps using such a tool might give us and the teacher that little bit of extra confidence...

I think it depends on the kid. I know for myself and my 4th grader doing algebra, long written out computations are the bottle neck. Understanding abstract concepts has been no problem at all.