Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Shies away from a challenge. How much to push?

Hmmm. Are you writing about my DS6? He has had a history of having a hard time with independent play. In retrospect, we would have tried really really hard to have another kid right away after DS, so he'd have a built-in playmate! I highly recommend playdates, to give your DD a chance to play without parents.

As for the reading, we went through the same thing with our DS. We knew he could read at high levels, because occasionally he would correct us when reading Willy Wonka at age 4, and occasionally he would even read a page to us. But he wouldn't read on his own. He likes to be read to. He still does. We worried about this too, but after advice from this board (I'll see if I can dig up the thread), we decided that it really wasn't important at the time. We let it go, and read to him. Now, DS6 is in 2nd grade and he seems to actually enjoy picking his own books from the school library and reading them on his own. He seems to like to pick the books that are interesting and still challenging, but short (like the old Babar books). He also likes the short DK Star Wars books. (DK readers are great, by the way - they have tons of topics, many reading levels, and lots of great pictures.) I think it is hard for the little ones to read long pages of books. Their eyes aren't ready for it.

We still read to DS. We don't plan on stopping anytime soon. We've seen the most reading to himself during long car trips. I think sometimes that there are just too many other distractions at our house (possibly even his fun parents!) so he prefers to do other things than reading. Good luck!

Oh, and with the shoes.... DS6 still cannot tie his shoes. Our solution - Merrell's and those elastic lace tennis shoes with velcro. At some point, we're guessing he'll need to learn how to do it, and he'll find motivation. I'm thinking scouts.

I have had some similar issues with my five-year-old son, not so much avoiding a challenge but avoiding taking it on in front of others. Some of the strategies I tried:

* explaining to him that practice is often needed to achieve mastery, that needing practice is no shame, etc. etc. etc. (I know some of these messages seem to fall on deaf ears with a perfectionist child, but I still believe that they have an effect over time)
* letting him practice on his own, with the idea that he must periodically be open to doing it in front of us
* finding activities that inherently encourage or incorporate imperfection during intermediate stages, with the perfectionism allowed to take hold in the finished product (i.e. building mockups of a final model)
* encouraging him to do something with me at the same time, so that we collaborate-- or seem to

As an example of this last one, for a while he was stressing out about doing any reading in front of us, if there was any possibility of being corrected when making even a quite minor mistake. I decided to try reading with him. We picked out some Disney duck full-length comics and began reading them together, pronouncing each word at almost the same time (I actually, once we got going, started lagging a tiny fraction of a second behind). When he caught on to what I was doing, I would read at the same time, then start lagging ever so slightly again. He eventually simply kept quiet about it, though he knew what I was doing, and soon was able to read in front of me again, though he still likes reading out loud together.

I think that collaboration is powerful because it can lessen the perceived harm from a mistake, because faults can be shared, and it presents chances for a child to be corrected in passing without it being a big deal. So, for example, even if I'm lagging behind on a certain word, and he mispronounces it slightly, he can note my correct pronunciation and drive on without it being a big deal (although once the technique started working, he started re-saying mispronounced words without a hassle).

I completely agree about the effect over time. With DS I find that he resists and resists but that by repeating the same message every time he eventually internalizes it. To me its the same as when he was a baby, can I still not stick my finger in a light socket? He needs to continue to check in until he gets it, or is comfortable with the message, whether its about gender and color (a month on, no I (mom) want to wear blue not pink) or needing to practice to learn how to do something.

On the other hand, I find he is totally open to correction on stuff he is confident on - he has no issue with being corrected on pronunciation or definition - he is confident in his reading so its no threat to ego.

I so did not think this was what I would be dealing with at 4!!!

DeHe

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I had to laugh when I read your post about your daughter. YOu have just described my son exactly. Like your daughter, he will also sit for 30 minutes waiting for me to take a nap at the edge of my bed. He needs constant interaction and participation from me. I have tried everything to change his need for constant companionship but nothing has worked and I've just given up and accepted and just accepted it. It used to worry me when he was younger a lot too. He's only five now but this has been an issues since he was two. My son seems to be okay though with anybody from adult to kids. He doesn't care who he is interacting with as long as they are engaging with him so it doesn't have to be just me which I was relieved to figure out after he went to preschool and made friends.


The interesting thing is now wonder if he would be so into learning if it weren't for the amount of attention he gets from me when doing things challenging. Maybe he always wanted me to read to him for hours on end as a toddler because it was a way for him to ensure that I would be by his side. On the flip side of this though is perhaps he needs certain kind of play and learning that requires peer or adult interaction. For example, at the park he never just runs around and climbs on the play structures like other kids. He always has to have a play scenario with characters while he is at the playground running around. He can do these things with either a parent or peers but he does not and will not play by himself.

I used to think he was really manipulative too and it would drive me up the wall. I worried about him giving up in school and falling apart in Kindergarten.Now that he is in school 7 hours a day and is a functioning student in a gifted classroom, I worry less about his ability to do stuff for himself. So far the teacher hasn't complained and he does do things in class that are challenging for him. The problems seems to be just a at home thing, which is a relief. So I guess I'm trying to say that it may not be a problem for her later on in school.

Thanks all again.

I was really conscious writing both my initial post and the subsequent one that I was probably coming across more negatively than I intended - or felt about it all, but I couldn't quite find the language I needed to articulate the situation or my response/worries about it. Certainly when I talked about her being manipulative, I didn't really mean it in a "she's a manipulative little so and so" kind of way, nor do I think that she should always be using her time 'valuably' - what ever than really means. Just that she manipulates (in the literal sense) these situations and I have been unsure whether to address that and if so, how. Despite my inability to say what I meant with any kind of eloquence, the stories and advice you've all had has been great.

Your stories, particularly yours graceful mom, make me realise this is probably just how she is It hasn't really been an issue for us until now (well, the behaviours have been there, but we've just let them be) - but she has just recently had this huge brain spurt, which to be honest has thrown much of my parenting know how (such as it is!) out of whack. She is a very different kid to the one she was even 3 or 4 weeks ago and in many ways much, much more mature. But in equally many ways still 4.5

Graceful mom, I had to laugh at the playground thing. DD is the same (though perhaps it is not so surprising as your son does sound a lot like dd). I have found a trick that works with her (to get her doing something on her own at the playground), which is to get her to complete what she calls 'challenges'. I have to set a course for her over the play equipment (up the red climbing thing, along the ramp, through the tunnel, down the slide etc). She loves it and gives me a chance to sit in the sun for a few moments!

St Pauli Girl - I laughed when I read your comment about a play mate. I often think that too Though don't know how if we had another with the intensity of dd!

Thanks again all.

Hi Kvmum,
This strikes very close to home for me. My DS14 is, and has always been, an only child, although he has also been at daycare at least half a day from 7 weeks of age because of my work schedule and living far from family. I even got reports from daycare that at age 3, he'd sit quietly and wait for his turn at the lego table if he was unfortunate enough to not be one of the first 3 kids to drop their names in the lego center slot - for hours and hours. It was very had to persuade him to settle for a 2nd best center. I'm not sure that we ever did, perhaps we just taught DS to stop complaining about school being boring and he went under the radar.

Here's todays highly romanticized view of his early years. Goodness knows what I would say if you asked me tomorrow or next year.

Since I was a new mom, and didn't know any better, and since I already felt guilty about my working hours, and guilty about not providing siblings, or even neighbor children, I was ripe for going along with my son's strong desire to have me as a playmate. Plus I found him to be lots of fun. Plus he strongly approved of my 'off beat' sense of humor and fun, in a way that I hadn't experienced in a long long time.

Let's face it, in most heterogeneous settings I used to see a slight, subtle, pained look on most people's faces as they try figure out what I'm talking about or defend themselves against the new ideas that are streaming out of me. ((That's what I think it is, at least, because my sense of the pained look goes away to be replaced by eager encouragement in gifted settings.)) Good sensitive female that I am, I had learned to modify my output to try to decrease that rate of pained expression, and become rather sensitive to others over the years.

So now I've got this delightful child who totally wants my attention, and shows delight and appreciation in me as long as I'm doing what he wants. Plus he's tiny and perfect and so dependent on me. So yes, I tried my best to arrange my time to be a playmate for my DS when he was young, and he demanded a very high level of attention and interaction.

It didn't occur to me until later that this might not be what's best for him. So whenever I hear about parents who have succeeded in slowly training their children to play independently, I cheer! A few on this board have seemed to know exactly what I am talking about, and have reported success with this plan - slow but steady. It seems that the first step in this plan is to praise like crazy every and any slightest hint of independent action. Even to the point of "I saw you hesitate right before you called for me, because you were thinking about doing that by yourself - great independence!!!

I hope it helps just know know that this isn't an unusual approach for a highly gifted only child to take. As time has gone by, I can see that DS is a real extravert in the sense that he is energized by an audience. I'll bet you can guess that I'm that way too. Otherwise I'd never have the energy to post here as much as I do, and to feel as energized from the social interaction here as much as I do.

I have heard that by verbally describing what your child is doing AND adding what good thing this says about her character, that she will find this emotionally energizing in a positive way. The 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook'by Lisa Bravo and Howard Glasser is a good resource for more on this. I think that some gifted kids have a 'larger than normal' appetite for verbal praise and recognition. If your daughter is like this, then the more you take the initiative to fill her 'cup' then the less demanding she might become. Worth a try at least. Some families set a timer for 5 minutes and when the bell rings the parent goes and finds the child and verbally highlights what's going well. My son certainly seemed to thirst for that level of acknowledgement.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks for your thoughts Grinity. I can relate a lot to your story and it does help to hear this isn't unusual for a gifted only child

I went back to work when dd was 7 months old and by the time I left work to 15 months ago she was in child care 4 full days a week. When I was working I really did feel that it was important for me to spend time with her when we were home (and as you did, I loved it!), so I really made a conscious effort to do so. Of course when I left work and she started attended preschool for only a few hours a week, she didn't see any need for me to stop! I am very introverted, so while I spend a good majority of the day with her, I do need to take time out and I had done a lot of work slowly getting her to play on her own. It was going really well - until the brain spurt - though in hindsight when ever she has a brain spurt she ups the need for attention. I suspect she needs the interaction to re-map where she's at. Over the last couple of days though she has started to play less reluctantly on her own again.

She's not a kid who likes to be praised a lot (she gets visibly uncomfortable), but she is a kid who likes to be praised much as you have described; for specific instances where she has made a choice.

Will definitely check out the book.

Thanks again.

Those brain spurts will get you every time!! Love the re-map description but for me! Ii find it so disconcerting to suddenly realize that there is a new level of awareness or understanding, where DH and I are talking later, did you hear what he said! Even though I know now it's normal for him and he will likely keep doing it, it is still rather like being suddenly dropped somewhere else and needing to check the map!

And Grinity, as a fellow someone who is sometime too "something" too much, too intense, too whatever, I am glad you have made peace with others reactions - but even more glad you are not restrained here. This newbie has benefitted enormously from your posts!

DeHe

Thanks DeHe, for the kind words.
I will say that having a variety of settings in my life has been the balm for me.

KVmum,
I'm glad to see that you are sounding more grounded and seeing the bigger picture. This is hard to do when they go through their 'spurts' but sometimes just noticing and regaining my own emotional footing has helped my family rebalance.
LOL!!! Yup - DS didn't see the need until he turned 13, then he was so grateful that I had work outside the house, and told me to stop paying so much attention to him. But he said it more colorfully. So there's a point for 'enjoy it while you got it!'

Glad to hear that your DD is playing solo more today! Every day a new adventure. Good luck with the workbook, and feel free to PM me if you have any questions. My guess is that as an Introvert with a clingy kid, you may have to 'notice and connect to your good character' what you are doing well in the moment also - have fun!

Grinity

Our boy was "diagnosed" with this during his tests when he was 4.5 At this age you cannot logically tak to them about stepping up to challenges, they are just not mature enough to wrap their heads around a complex concept.

What we did was engage him in a musical instrument (piano) and as he progressed (rapidly it seems), I showed him how his practice with the piano every day was the reason he could play all these new and difficult pieces. i then told him his homework was the same way, that it was a practice session that would allow him to try more difficult work at school and then reinforced this with the reality that he was already several years ahead of his peers thus showing he can do it.

It took us about a year for that to sink in, so there is no silver bullet. Consistent positive re-enforcement along with associating homework as "practice" similar to the musical instrument (which I feel all gifted children should be strongly encouraged to do ) has made him now eager to accept a challenge.

He was just tested at 6.5 and the Dr. stated that the avoidance to challenge was no longer present in her examination.