Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Throwing down the gauntlet...long post

With you all the way -

My husband is and Electrical Engineer with a minor in math, and he told me to chill when I started putting pressure to bear for my son to speed up and to memorize his times tables. He said that he himself still doesn't know them all by memory and that many of the top mathematicians don't either, because they approach math differently.

Since then I've backed off. He's started liking math again, thinks he's good at it, and is actually making more progress than when I was stressing him out.

Hi chris1234-- I don't know if you are familiar with Visual-Spatial Learners, but one characteristic is that they are global learners:

They learn all-at-once, and when the light bulb goes on, the learning is permanent. They do not learn from repetition and drill. They are whole-part learners who need to see the big picture first before they learn the details. Linda Kreger Silverman. Ph.D.

I love this article from The Gifted Development Center about timed tests- the dreaded timed test .
I always wondered why I, as a mathematician, was not good at timed facts tests. It wasn't that I didn't know them or didn't care about doing well. I just wanted to get to the more interesting & challenging content. I suspect your son is the same.

As for your being too aggressive, I don't think that at all. I fought dd13's placement with a math teacher last year because she had been with this teacher the year before & all I heard was how much dd hated math. It had previously been her favorite subject. Do what you think is best for your son.

Same sentiments on timed exams! I HATED them when I was in school and even failed art because I started hyperfocusing on the time. I can see similar traits in my son. He doesn't have any timed math drills at this stage, so thank goodness! Isn't the focus on speed rather than understanding so counterintuitive??!

You guys may already know this:
www.bigbrainz.com

This is the closest we get to a drill. DS loves the game, knows his tables well but hyperventilates at the higher levels because of the excitement level (that timing factor!). I let him at it whenever he feels ready.

I totally agree. I have a BS in Math (and comp sci). I'm quite sure I didn't know my tables by heart until high school level math, and I never would have won any speed drills. I can't even tell you how many years I remember wiggling my fingers under my desk. But I never got below an A in high school level math. And mostly A's in college level math for that matter.

I think the emphasis on speed and drills is ridiculous. I think as long as a kid gets them down by the time they get to algebra, all is well. Much more time could be spent presenting more interesting math concepts. And the thing is that if you present more interesting concepts, they learn their facts while working on other, less painfully boring things.

We homeschool. My 9 year old started algebra this year and tested at end of 8th grade level in math last spring. He's never done a speed drill after 1st grade. He played games like Timex Attack and just moved at a slow to comfortable pace for him. We do lots of complex word problems.

I hate timed drills and rote memorization and so does DS9. We have been playing Brain Age for the DS and there is a basic math section - one requiring 20 problems and one with 100. DS9 likes working on this as a game much better than many other methods. One thing I can say it that once the kids in DS's math class get five 90% or better in the time limit they are no longer required to do the math facts sheets.

Well thanks again to all those posting experience with this particular 'conundrum', it certainly helps me feel less crazy. Yesterday I had to drop off ds at the office rather than bus so I asked about the gt application papers and ended up being able to chat with the gifted ed teacher yesterday afternoon. She agreed if there is a concern it would be looked into and thankfully they have a time to see me, set early on the 4th, so here we go.
She did say that she took the time to get ds' previous psycho-educational assessment from the front office and have the teachers and vice principal review it; in particular the bit about timed tests/processing speed. Considering his score in that area, he really does amazingly well in school.

I have started pulling work for 5th and 6th grade off the internet to get a feel for where ds might have gaps, how far he can go without major instruction. So far everything we've looked at is easy-peasy for him but we haven't gone very far yet.

We will discuss as 'a team' on Monday; guess I'll see whether I need to pick up my gauntlet from the floor!

I will throw out a different alternative. Why not make the math speed fun (similar to Breakaway4�s comment)? We have �Math Baseball� for the Leapster and �Math Munchers� for the computer. With the implementation of electronic and computer games, DD's speed has really increased. The �rote� memorization becomes habit the more it is used and the more you know the faster you go. So why not make it fun?

Good luck!

I hear ya, and feel for you. You are stronger than I am. I gave up a long time ago. I can't handle the stress of trying to fight for our kids. I hear it all the time from all the "experts" but I am not capable. I gave up and had to move on for my sanity and for the sake of my family. I learned to live w/the fact that school sucks. I enroll him in reading and math classes through CTY, I put him in CW Post classes and also Hofstra. That is the best I can do. I could not handle "talking to walls" anymore. So my DS7 continues to write letters for HW.

As Wallace often says, "Well that went as well as could be expected!"

We did have the meeting this morning (and I wasn't even late!!)
They wanted me to start the whole thing off, so I did just plow right in, outlining the current issue with speed / math fact sheets, the indicators of ds' real math potential and just stated firmly that 1. we needed to reassess for the gifted program and 2. he needed different work asap.

Shockingly enough they were less inclined to reprocess the assessment (which I understand) and more willing to work on broadening what he is able to work on. I just had the impression they couldn't do the second thing without the first.
In fact they are going to REMOVE the timed sheets (yay!) and instead give ds some extension work right when everyone else is plowing into math facts. They he'll switch to regular work and if he has time, be allowed to go back to the extension work.
Not ideal, but not too terrible. They even stated the possibility of independent study, but I guess we'll see how this goes for now.
I wish someone had suggested this earlier, like last year!

I am not calling this a complete victory, but certainly better than I thought would happen. And I am going ahead with the assessment too, just to be on the 'thorough' side.

Whew.

Well, hey, it sounds like a victory, no matter what size! BABY STEPS! You'll get there

Good job!