Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy education advocacy film: Waiting for Superman

http://www.waitingforsuperman.com/

Not about gifted ed, but looks compelling. Comes out the day before school starts here.

We are screening this movie at our next all school staff development day: http://thelotteryfilm.com/

Similar topic... we are one of those charter schools with a lottery. I have about 200 kids on a waitlist right now for 90 spots in 6th grade. It breaks my heart to know there are kids out there, fabulous kids, who have a make or break chance based on what number comes out of the bucket.

Bumping this thread due to the film spotlighted on Oprah today.

I have such mixed feelings about the show. Yes we have bad teachers and I experienced it first hand when student teaching under one of them, but I was really upset that it appears they are making the issue of our nation's education all about the bad teachers ... they are the only reason or so it appears. What about the system put into place NCLB? Not once was this mentioned. I find the whole thing narrowed minded and more of a witch hunt.

I shouldn't comment because I haven't seen the whole movie yet, only bits, but here goes anyway. It not only seems to ignore the inappropriate and ineffective system required by NCLB and its Testing is Everything mindset, but also the critical role that parents play in the education of their children. Even the best of teachers can't always combat the anti-intellectualism of many in this country. You can lead a horse to water and all the other cliches are rather appropriate when talking about trying to force an education on some.

The movie seems more like fuel for the private charter school crowd who are salivating at the prospect of being handed tens or hundreds of thousands of our tax dollars with little to no oversight.

I am interested to see it. I do worry about our schools I think the problems with our schools are mutli-factorial and agree that one cannot just point the finger at teachers.

One problem IMHO is poor curricula choices by school boards which dumb down education. I think there should be a rigorous return to a classical like education IMHO. Also, the state NCLB testing is a race to the bottom from what I understand since the tests have been dumbed down in many instances so that schools can meet the benchmarks. I also worry about teacher preparation in that I think much more focus should be on expertise in content areas and much less on how to teach. This should be coupled with apprenticeship with great teachers. Lastly, I agree that families are a big part of the equation. Perhaps there should be a stronger incentive for students to succeed (with the appropriate help from schools such as tutoring and IEPs when needed) such as not passing them along from grade to grade when they are failing.

I also think school choice in the form of public schools, charters, cyber charters, homeschooling with tax dollars available to support curricula choices if needed, and vouchers are a good thing In Belgium, I believe, school dollars follow the student with great success since the schools must attract the students. I support this since often local schools are tone deaf to parental desires IMHO.

My 2 cents

If a school gets most of its money from the public, then its not a private school.

On the one hand, NCLB sucks but charter schools lack oversight? Seems like oversight is the issue in the first place?

Parents not involved? Who wants to be involved when you have no choice or say in the matter?

Teachers motivated when they feel helpless?

The way to get the parents involved is to offer them a way to get skin the game by giving them a choice which will then cause the schools that have their act together to grow while those that don't, fail.

We've had urban flight for 40 years now thus giving half the nation a way to force schools to compete due to the growth of the suburbs.

We need to fix the other half.

When we talk about bad schools, we are not talking about professional communities or most rural school districts. The place where charter schools are desperately needed are places like Detroit, Memphis and New Orleans. Places where most of the graduating class is illiterate, poor, and non-white, where there is systematic corruption, neglect, and low expectations.

Austin, sorry, I misspoke (mistyped?) when I said private when what I intended was for profit. Many charter schools are run by for profit companies with the use of our tax dollars and have far fewer regulations than public schools.

Yes, some regulations are bad and NCLB is a prime example. However, one particular regulation I think worthy is limiting class sizes, and Texas charter schools are exempt from class size requirements. Texas does not require charters to hire certified teachers, either, just as a number of other states also exempt charters from certification. Less oversight isn't good in those situations, especially when you have a for profit company making the decision to hire fewer teachers and increase its profits rather than smaller classes.

One problem with the idea of school choice and the transfer of public monies to private schools and/or for profit charters is that there is no requirement that those schools accepting public monies accept any and all applicants/transfers. The schools in the 5th Ward of Houston and the 9th Ward of New Orleans could have stellar test scores and graduation and college acceptance rates if they were allowed to choose the students they enroll and expel those who are not cooperating in their own education. Force Andover or Hockaday to accept anyone who applies and they become just another school, with some exceptionsl students and some who could care less. Universal education demands that even those who do not want an education receive the tools and lessons for one, and then our public schools are unfairly compared to those private and charter schools who get to skim the cream. Apples and oranges.

Yes, we need to do something to fix our schools, especially those which are corrupt. Unfortunately, corrupt school districts are often merely symptoms of the larger problem in this country, the apathetic citizenry (some school boards are elected with less than 10% of registered voters casting ballots). People complain about NCLB but don't connect it to the legislators who have personal or lobbying ties to the testing companies. We want teachers to be held accountable, but don't let little Johnny or Susie receive a bad grade or- heaven forbid- be held back a year. Polling consistently says people value educational issues, but we rarely actually turn out to vote on them. Unfortunately, we often get the government we deserve, and that is also reflected in our school systems.

I agree that "private charter school" is an oxymoron - there is no such thing. In addition, charters have the ultimate oversight in that they can be closed, in two ways: (1) parents can choose to send their children elsewhere, and/or (2) the district can revoke the charter. IMO, while charters aren't a panacea, more choice is better. I do not believe in a one-size-fits-all approach to education, and I don't think we'd be on this board if any of us did.

I have read some pretty good arguments over the last few years that certification requirements really don't mean much in terms of performance in the classroom.

I'm not sure how class size requirements and certification = oversight. They seem irrelevant to me. (Honestly they sound like union issues, the getting around of which seem to be one of the whole points of charters.)


I admit I don't know anything about for-profit charters - I'm not aware of any in my district, though I think there were problems with one in another part of the state. I think profit vs. not for profit is a separate issue from charters generally. I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of charters are not for-profit.


Here in CO, that is not the case. The charters have to accept all comers, and if they're filled, the spaces are awarded by lottery. The charter application is identical, literally, to the application to attend the neighborhood school (birth certificate, proof of residing in the district, and immunization)


Where I admit there is an apples/oranges issue is in parental involvement. Parents who take the trouble to choose generally place a higher value on education. Parental motivation is a huge subject, that I have some thoughts on, but I can't write about them at this moment.


I think I basically agree with this (except that perhaps retention often isn't a successful solution, but it's frequently the only solution available "inside the box" so to speak). Maybe I can flesh out my thoughts on that more later...

Inky's right for CA too- almost no for-profit charters, strict oversight by a local charter board, lottery for entry are all CA requirements.

As for teacher credentialing, I've been in my charter for 11 years now. About 2/3 of my teachers are credentialed. 1/3 are not. The non-credentialed ones are almost all professional artists working in their field and teaching art, music, drama, dance, stagecraft, graphic and digital arts and 3D animation. If all teachers were required to have credentials, our school would lose all the excitement, energy and passion it has! Add in my physics teacher who has a Ph.D and doesn't want to spend 2 more years in school to get a piece of paper. Great teachers are born not made, a piece of paper won't change that.

All of our parents are required to volunteer 30 hours a year. The #1 key to success we've found is parental involvement. We keep costs down, class sizes smaller than our district and parents are part of the team in their child's education.

We do revoke contracts for students. We have high academic and behavioral expectations. If you can't meet them, you'll have three chances, a ton of resources and parent meetings to get you to try. If you don't try, we will replace that student with someone who will. About 5 students a year in 1000 kids grades 6th-12th don't make it.

I get a bit defensive when charter schools get accused of cherry picking. Our school requires parent commitment, student passion and hard work. Kids are in school from at least 8am to 4pm, their only classes available are college prep. There are no easy F's at my school- we will force you to tutoring, make you sit lunches with your teachers, meet with your parents, call them weekly and generally harass you until you put in the work! Some families just don't want to put in the effort...