Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment CTY results - Issues

Hi all,

This is my first time asking a question on this fabulous forum. I am pretty helpless & looking for some guidance with my DD10,a 4�th grader.

Not sure if my DD would be classified as �Gifted Child� (I never had her test for it), but, she has always excelled at school and on MCAS, state wide assesment exam ( 99 percentile both in 3�rd grade Math and Reading). We had her take JHU CTY last week (Thanks to this forum for the awareness !!!) and her scores are in today:
Math 41/50 (Raw); 484 scaled; 99 percentile compared to grade 6.
Verbal: 39/50 (raw), scaled 457, 91 percentile compared to grade 6.

Now , the Issue:
Lately she has been getting terribly bored with school. There are actually days when she comes home in tears !!! We think she is being under challenged. After pleading with her class teacher, she has been getting some extra Math challenge packets and few extra writing assignments, which don�t seem to be helping her a lot. She has been requesting us to look into private schools. Our finances are extremely tight and affording private school is NOT an option.

We are from Massachussetts , which doesn�t seem to fund any �Gifted education� programs and from a school district which treats �Gifted� almost as a curse word. School will not consider grade acceleration either.

Now my questions:
1) Are her CTY scores good? Does it make sense to cosider DYS ? There are no centers in MA that offer EXPLORE . Going to PA for taking EXPLORE will be quite a hike for us.

2) Should I contact my DD�s school anyway? What possible options can I negotiate with them, apart from skipping few classes / grade acceleration.

3) Should I have her take IQ test to determine if she could be classified as gifted?

4) Or should I ignore her protests and hope things will be fine someday.(pretty hard !)

Thanks a bunch for any input!
Frustrated mom

First off, great scores! Secondly, the first thing that jumped in my head was when you said she is coming home in tears and is asking for private schooling.... My Mom intuition may be off here, but is is possible that you have 2 issues going on? One being bored in school, but possibly, 2 being some other school related issue with friends or what not that you are not aware of? If this is the first time you are seeing her "act out" about school, perhaps the boredom is in addition to another issue that maybe you want to see if that's a possibility at all? I just instantly thought that requesting to switch schools for a child that age (when many can be so close to their friends that they wouldn't dare think of switching) might signal that boredom isn't the only issue. Perhaps if you find out it's something else, by resolving that issue too, you can save the cost of tuition while treating the issue of boredom at the current school as well?! Again, I may be off totally without knowing her but it was the first thing I thought of.

I would start with finding out what the real issue is, then if it is truely just boredom from lack of challenge, come up with a plan to approach the school. It helps to have suggestions as they have already tried math packets etc. I hope I am wrong and it's just lack of challenge, but that's no easy feat in and of itself!

Good for you for being on top of your child's needs though!

Thanks Dottie! DH and I decided we will get her tested anyways. Even if she doesn't make DYS levels, we would still have an
understanding of her IQ levels. That would be a good place to start.

bh14 - that was my first intuition too I had discussions with her teachers to see if she had any school related issues. Nothing substantial turned out. Although she got called out couple times for being distracted and unattentive in the class She is extremely friendly and liked by her friends a lot. I had a talk with her aswell. She says she finds school pretty boring. But, thanks again for expressing your "mom" feelings. I am so with you

Good for you for checking with the teacher! I bet with the way you are on top of things, you will have a solution, or at least a step in the right direction in no time! Stay on it

Your child sounds gifted, and I would suggest that you would, as you said, get her tested. Be warned, however, that sometimes, testing isn't all that accurate, and could speak false negatives.

Hi there,

We have a lot in common in terms of our school districts, and we have just (we think, I won't really believe it until he is in the classroom) successfully advocated for our son to get subject accelerated in math 2 years, so here are three suggestions.

The first thing I would suggest is to find out what the district policies are on levels, grouping, etc. especially as they hit middle school - for instance, in our district 5th graders can take a test that allows them to skip 6th grade math and go directly to honors level 7th grade math. That sort of thing, even if it doesn't directly relate to your child yet. If you are fairly certain you need to stick with your public schools (we felt that way), start researching all state and district policies re: gifted education, levels, AP standards, etc. Try to connect with your state gifted organization as well and see if they know anyone locally who has successfully advocated for their child in your district. Assuming your child tests "gifted" (which it certainly sounds like), you will need to know the policies, etc.

Second, I would strongly suggest that if you are going to do testing, you bite the bullet and do both an achievement test like Woodcock Johnson and an IQ test. Our son's IQ test certainly was a useful piece of the puzzle, but most schools don't care that much about them (especially in states that have limited G/T programs). Achievement tests, however, will often make them sit up and take notice. I regret not doing an achievement test first (or doing both) as I think it made advocating for our son more difficult. The schools were not familiar with SCAT, so that didn't count for much with them. While ultimately the IQ test was sufficiently high to convince them (after months of pushing) to test his math skills on an in-district assessment, I think WJ would have helped move things along faster.

Third, don't give up. We were initially told that the district doesn't do subject or grade acceleration. As I talked to people and a very supportive teacher from an earlier grade, I found out that there had been very occasional (maybe 1 time every 3/4 years) cases of both. After reading the district policies closely, it was apparent there was no official policy re: acceleration, which gave us hope - even if it meant taking our efforts all the way to the Super. It didn't take that, but it did take months of calls/emails/visits to the principal, and then ultimately going directly to the districts K-12 math curriculum trainer, at which point they agreed to test DS in district. From that point, things did start to happen. My only regret is that I didn't push harder/faster. My new rule of thumb is that someone gets 3 days to answer an email or phone call, 1 week to take a promised action and if I don't hear from them I will contact them with a "what is the status" type email. If I am not satisfied with the results after 3 interactions, I will move up the chain of command. I spent 3 months dealing with the teacher, and another 4 months dealing with the principal - never again.

Good luck. I think it is important to try to remember that most schools really do have the children's best interests at heart. At least in our district, 50% of the parents think their child is in the top 5%, so we have learned that our district is very skeptical of claims re: "giftedness." Indeed, we were told that one of the reasons they had concerns about IQ tests is because they believed that some number of psychologists "fudged" results. Which, given our part of the country and the emphasis on getting ahead, doesn't completely surprise me.

Violet, thanks for fore-warning about testing inacuracies. That's a very good thing to know.

Catalana, Thanks a lot for for taking time to share your experience and offering practical suggestions. Congratulations on your DS's subject acceleration !

I feel terrible for not doing enough for my DD. Her 2'nd grade teacher at one of PT conferences said, my DD was writing at 5'th grade level, Her Math skills were 2 grades ahead aswell. But, she also said unfortunately the school doesn't make any distinctions and treats every child as "gifted". I just accepted what she said as complete truth and did nothing until recently when my DD started complaining about boredom.

This forum had been a god-send. Absolutely an eye opener! Kudos to all you parents for not only realizing your child's potential, but, actually doing something about it. I have leant so much reading the threads Than any other resource can ever educate me. Thanks so much all !

Svmp- don't feel bad! I completely understand, as I have felt that way too, but really, it sounds as if until this year your daughter has been doing just fine. And she clearly has been learning if she is so far ahead, so don't be hard on yourself. It sounds as if she has a terrific advocate in you!

Cat