Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment New...Totally heart broken and at a loss

Hi Everyone:

WARNING LONG!� but please read�

I am the mother of four. My #3 DS I believe is gifted.
He read at 2 � (started reading street signs) and has always been �way out there".
Examples: 1st grade all on his own initiative he memorized the reproductive system.
2nd grade started grafting blood types and antigens. Friendships have been very difficult for him even though he is VERY social. He is so "out there" that his father comes home gets on the computer to "study" before they talk (dad is a Physician).

My husband always wanted to put him in "special" school for high learners. I fought it; I wanted him in our neighborhood. He told me he would get bored but I figured as long as he kept studying on his own he would be fine. DS is now 10 (April) and just finished the 4th grade. His social skills are good, friendships are still tough. I tried to teach him to "listen" to what other kids are interested in, and then learn about it� then you will have something to talk about.
Well he did...it didn't work. NASCAR...he memorized all the divers, sponsors and who and how the cars are built. He knows all the tracks and what speed and air drafts that makes the car go faster.
He knows how big the tracks are and the angle they are built which contributes to the speed and (something)�you get the picture. The other boy, he just likes Jeff Gordon.
Then there was Airplanes...That didn't work either. He knew every plane when it was built who built it and when the companies merged. He can look up in the sky at a plane and tell you the year and model and who made what on it�again the other boy thought they were cool.
Ships...WWII...You probably understand more than anyone.

He is constantly reading...In the morning the FIRST thing he does is grab books. The last thing I tear him away from is his computer (research). I had to take the parental guard off the computer so he can do his "research".

The reason I am here...I feel like I have failed him and I don't know if it's too late. I have been reading this board for a week. I have been reading EVERYTHING. I know he is gifted� kids just don't act like this not at 10. His 3rd grade teacher came up to me last year and told me kids in "3rd grade just don't know what he knows"

How I failed him... I have never held any weight on standardized testing. My oldest used to test off the charts on the SAT9/10. He hated school and learning. I don't ever remember him even bringing homework home. He graduated college with 2 degrees at 21... He hated school. What the test told me was nothing he had no interest in going to Grad School. When testing came up�pfft who cares about that.

DS10 LOVES to learn he is like a sponge...he can't get enough. He is constantly complaining of being bored. He has had straight A's every quarter in school since he started except handwriting...that is agony for him. He is not very athletic and of course that does not help him socially.

The only testing he has ever had is the ITBS and that is done in the beginning of the school year usually within the first month of school. The public schools do the test in May.
Again, I never held water with those tests and when I received them I placed them in a drawer�until about 2 weeks ago.
The reason I picked this school was they started offering advance math in 5th grade. I was hoping that would give DS10 the challenge he was looking for. YEA, except he did not qualify. I was shocked� WHAT? He was the only one in two classes who passed his Multiplication (taken the first week school started) and division (first week in Oct) tables in the first try, they get 100 questions and they have to finish all 100 in < 5 mins with a 70 % or better. He got a 99 on Multiplication and a 98 on his division.
He has had NOTHING but straight A�s in Math�YES BUT he scored a 49 on his ITBS test in September.
I was like REALLY??? You are joking right...Nope even though 2 children that STILL haven�t passed their tables got in. DS is confused and devastated. So I pull out the two test he has taken (3rd & 4th grades)
And she was right he scored 49 in September BUT he scored almost 40 points higher on it last year.
AND he is the high 90�s in Science (both years) and SS. Do they really take a week and PIN it on a kid?
They see what this kid is like� What about his GRADES and the fact every kid failed area and parameter but he got 102% on the exam. Of course he learned it from you tube because the teacher couldn�t explain it.
Let�s not mention he takes his anatomy cards out to understand an episode of �House� so he can understand the differential diagnosis�s�really?

So now I have a stagnate kid who has been stifled and is shutting his systems down like a BAD space flight (his words). I don�t know what to do. Like I said he is #3 out of 4. My children are all bright, but he is "out there"�and I am losing him, he is way too smart for me. He challenges his father to a point where he says he is going to pay his cousin to �play with him� (Rhodes Scholar).

He constantly and I mean CONSTANTLY talks about all this stuff he teaches himself.
BUT mom never placed emphasis on testing. Both his older siblings did fine on their SAT�s; ACT�s and got accepted to every school they applied. Why should I care about a 3rd or 4th grade test on a kid who makes them look like special Ed.

What can I do? How can I turn this around? DS does not want to change school. We did this between 2nd & 3rd grade and he has such difficulty with friendships�But I understand, because I am his mother and I love him and he makes me nutty with the constant flow of information he feeds me.
I know he had trouble with �bubble� testing at the beginning of the year. He is also not very organized.
He always answers questions before you can even get the question out�not good. And his listening skills are getting worse. HELP !!!

If you are still reading�Thank you. I am completely desperate. Where do I start?

I know there are many here with more experience. It's only been two years since I came out of my denial. What is the school offering to do? Have you approached them about other factors to consider in placing into the advanced class?

Have you considered testing him? For us, independent testing confirmed what we already knew but was objective material to take to the school to advocate with. (I will be upfront and say my children are no longer in public school and now homeschool to meet their needs.) My DD was shutting down, GT children often will if not challenged. I do not think it is to late.

Crying child.... I'll try and get back later.

Hi. Wow. I'm sure many other people will give you more appropriate responses, but I wanted to at least give you a prompt response...

First of all, what an amazing kid! That is fantastic that he is so fascinated with so many different things, and so unquenchably interested in learning and growing.

Second, I am sorry you are feeling so down on yourself. But do not doubt that you have done right by your son. You and your family have clearly created an environment where he feels free to learn, where he is able to discuss things, get new materials, etc. -- and that is NOT an environment every gifted kid has.

Third, stagnation and "shutting down" are horrible, but they are not irreversible. Your kid is brilliant, you and your husband are responsive -- do not doubt that he can thrive.

Regarding the math class, Is an appeal on the decision possible? A retest? A probationary period? Though, honestly, it doesn't sound like this "advanced" math would be enough for him. I know he doesn't want to change schools, but is homeschooling an option? Does your state offer k12 or another virtual academy?

Finally, I applaud you for not emphasizing standardized tests. They are necessary evils for admissions to certain things, and I don't think it was unreasonable of you to expect your more-than-capable son to do well without having to be told anything in particular. There are plenty of reasonably smart kids whose (un)reasonably smart parents and teachers put way more emphasis on doing well on tests than on, you know, learning and applying what you learn. I am sorry that this one time it has tripped you up, but in the long run, a laid back attitude towards tests -- coupled with an environment that fosters learning -- is something you can be proud of. Now, a diagnostic test may be of use to you, but that is another matter...

Don't know if I have said anything to help, and I'm VERY sorry that you are feeling heart broken, but I honestly don't think there is reason for you to be. You clearly love your son, and I have seen no indication whatsoever that you failed him.

*Hugs*

First ... welcome to the board; I'm really glad you found this community and should find a lot of support here.

I think you know the answer to help with all your 'unanswered' questions ... you are the prime example of when to test. Look for someone who specializes in gifted children not just a basic tester. To answer your question of why test? You and your son are at a brick wall and the more data you collect about his LOG and especially the sub-scores from the test; the more you will have an idea of where to go from here. You haven't failed your son because you are open to the idea and researching it. You understand that what is in place right now isn't working and this is the main reason you need to test.

And if my instincts are accurate; I suspect you are dealing with the top of the scale on the LOG (level of gifted) and more than likely your son is level 5 on Ruf's levels. (Deborah Ruf's book 'Losing our Minds' is a great resource if you haven't read it yet.) What does this mean? It means that his age peers just won't get him and he doesn't get them. It also means that he isn't being challenged at school and though he has amazing motivation at home, he could potentially be suffering and get to the point that he hates school and learning. HG+ kids are high risk kids.

Testing him would open the door to places like DYS and kids he could relate to. You mentioned your husband wanted to place him in a special school for the gifted... is this not a possibility now? I know you talk about your son not wanting to move out of his school for fear of making new friends but maybe if he spent some time with the school observing ... he just might find a friend or two there and that alone might ease his concerns.

I'm sure others on this board will offer more advice or should I say ... more valid advice since their own children are closer to your sons age and/or have experienced what you are going through. My DD is only 3.5, but I completely feel for your son and hope you can find a solution that works for your family. He sounds wonderful and I will look forward to reading more about that amazing boy you have.

You may want to consider having him take the explore test(when available)or some other type of testing like IQ or achievement.

I'm not sure which type of test he took. Was it something like IOWA, standardized testing? or above level? IF it's too easy, some kids don't focus enough to show ability, even below their ability.

Have you talked to the people that make the decisions and explained your point of view? Would they be interested in a portfolio of what he can do?

If you had testing done by a psychologist with gifted experience, maybe they could talk to the school on his behalf. Can the teacher who saw what he can do speak on his behalf? Try to talk to someone who believes in him and maybe they can help make a plan.

Do you know much history at your school of how they help gifted kids? He sounds amazing and wonderful.

School is out. Can you devert his attention to activities that will satisfiy him and forget this challenge for now?

We have had some very hard times due to gifted issues. Looking back, I can say some of the really bad stuff lead us to a path that I believe will help us. Example- IF my DS never acted so strangely at school due to stress from being underchallenged, we may not have had testing done which lead to DYS and a new school. I year ago, I would not have been able to accept going to a new school because I had to learn that are current school is just not going to give us what we need. This is our path and your's may be different. There are many ways to help kids like this.

So take a deep breath and realize you are learning and all is not lost with some bumps in the road. Just keep working the situation.

I hope I've helped some. Hang in there. This is hard.

This seems like a big red flag that something isn't right. Is there anyone at the school who might be willing to advocate for him? It is a heart breaking story but hopefully you can find a psychologist who specializes in working with gifted children to help turn this around. Here's a link to help with that avenue:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/psychologists.htm

Wow... thank you for all the responses. I have read the threads here this past week and tears have ran down my face.

I have never been a "label" person. Oldest DS was labeled "gifted" but as soon as he started playing sports, school went out the window. I assumed life evens out...
He was my measuring stick...BUT he was very well rounded.

I have to "revamp" my thinking and get proactive in this.

I guess I have concerns...
1. he is not focused enough to sit for battery of testing without "Checking out" I did some practice ones with him.
Sunday afternoon I gave him a battery of questions he knew them all. Sunday night same questions switched around the order...
He answered 2 wrong. When I verbally asked him he knew it.UGG

2. He is a "brillant disaster" the only more disorganized person I know is his father...I have seen him get a question or two wrong on Math because he didn't finish the problem on the count he can't read his own writing. He doesn't like to completely read through the whole question before answering it. He is usually right but it is a very bad habit.

To answer some questions

The test he was given was Iowa Test "ITBS" I thought science and math are usually in the same ranges? How can science be 98 and Math 49? yet he excells in class? and HOW can he decrease his score in one year by 40 % points. Not to mention he is watching you tube for instruction...

I am old school... I had no idea you tube had this stuff...LOL

OK what is a LOG ?
I have not read any books on this subject yet I really had an adversion to "labels" and tried very hard to "normalize" my son.
He isn't normal, we had him worked up for Aspergers (age 4 and age 6) the doctor said he doesn't even come close to the critia. He is SO social...He is exhausting. I think that was the doctor who got to learn everything about the Titanic.

I am working with a tutor that is masters prepared. We are going to construct some sort of a "summer" program for him.
So far HE suggested a book for her 8th grade student that is struggling in US History...LOL She has known him for awhile. I hired her when he was in preschool because I couldn't keep up!

I rehired her recently to help me. My husband is just so busy with work and it's tough having to be the only parent doing everything. This is not going to be fun.

I think...and tell me if I am wrong...He needs test taking skills. NOT short 30 question tests. But these long type tests that require him to stay focused. He has no issues with ADHD he can read a book for hours and he is NOT a TV watcher or a video gamer he likes to LEARN...

What tests would you all recommend ?

I have so much too learn...

I see you are getting many helpful comments here, and I am sure you will receive more. I just wanted to give my .02 -- don't feel bad, you have not failed your child. We all do our best. I virtually ignored my HG++ (EG? PG?) middle child while running a 50 hour a week ABA program in my house for my oldest, who was born with autism. The ABA program went on for 5 years and during that time took most of my attention. Middle child was ignored and his needs were neglected (youngest not born yet). I am sure you are doing your best, so don't beat yourself up.

Second, I don't buy those test results from September. My kids (all three) have tended to be somewhat erratic test takers. Maybe yours is too. Sometimes it seems they go into autopilot when completing tests that are too easy. Maybe they underestimate the effort required, or maybe they can't be bothered? Who knows. My kids shine on above level assessments and have always performed much better and more consistently on those. Maybe your son is the same? Any chance your child can take the SCAT or even the SAT, perhaps through one of the gifted programs (Duke or JHU CTY)? A great result on one of those perhaps could be used to convince the school that your ds belongs in the advanced math group.

If all else fails, you can do EPGY open enrollment math at home (I hope), but if I were you I would try to get some alternative data (do some testing outside school), and try to force the school to place your child in the advanced math program. GL. I'm sure you will get many great suggestions here. Most of all though, do not be too hard on yourself. It will all work out, with the effort you are making, one way or another. BTW, my ds9 would love your kid, and I am sure he would find your son very cool.

LOG means "level of giftedness" or some variant thereof.

My youngest, like your ds, has wildly swinging achievement scores. In our case, we're really leaning toward divergent thinking processes. She rarely looks at problems the way the test designer did and can therefore come up with some really creative, but sometimes wrong, answers.

Re science being higher than math, they are testing different things, but about 1/2 of the science test is "thinking skills." Did he do poorly on both the math problem solving and math computation parts of the ITBS (that may not be the exact wording)? The problem solving part would fall more into the "thinking skills" area again where I would expect to see more overlap btwn scores.

I think our messages crossed paths (we were typing at the same time?) but I am sure you will get helpful responses based on the additional information you have posted. Good luck to you and your son.