Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school not sure what to do for Kindergarten etc.

Hi,

Some of you know my DD's history, but I will briefly go over it here. I apologize if I have already asked for this input before. I am just greedy for more input :-)

My DD is 3 soon to be 4 and is going to a play based preschool. Overall she is happy there because she is very extroverted, but she has had incidents like not wanting to sing the ABC song in class because she says, "that's for babies to learn" and being told to go sit in a time out. Now I can understand their being upset with her, but I think she really is insulted at times by being asked, "what shape is this" in a very slow voice as a teacher points to a circle during play time when she could tell you what a trapezoid was at one and a half. Her baby sister could tell you letter sounds and calls her pizza a trapezoid when she took a bite before two, so she must think it odd to be doing these things with kids a great deal taller than she is. She goes by their kindergarten class, points and names all the planets and wishes she was doing something interesting, but has another year of preschool after this one, and even then, the kindergarteners are sitting through letter sounds and have painful repetition of things.

She knew letter sounds by one and a half could read simple words at two and started spelling at two, and at three can read words like "impressive," "constellation" etc. Her language is astounding, her memory frightening, her imagination and creativity is endless , her drawings very advanced, sculpture amazing, etc. Oh she can add and subtract in her head, skip count, etc. Her puzzle ability was always very advanced, but she is less interested in puzzles. She has a high natural math ability, like I did, but is more excited about language and imagination.

Here are my concerns. Just after she turned 3, we had her see a psychologist because I was worried she had ADHD-she is highly intense, emotional, defiant, and could not stop talking or singing all day--
and they gave her an IQ test(I did not request it). I thought she was too young and she probably was. She did fine, but she gave answers that were intentionally wrong at times or they didn't catch where she was going with her answers etc. She "only" scored around 130 though her verbal composite was much much higher. My sense is she will score higher if tested later, but if she doesn't, can I assume she will be "fine" just going along with her peers. In a way being a 130 would make things easier: is a 130 kid as far ahead as mine is without being pushed? I read to her a ton,and speak ot her like she is an intelligent human being, but don't push her--she would never let me anyway. She does what she wants to do. She is doing first grade level things at three. This is embarassing, but she corrects me and there are times I will ask her something because I forgot, and she knows the anwers and I have a masters from Harvard, have a gifted level IQ, and my sense is her IQ is higher than mine and that would certainly make it over 130, but I could be wrong,and that is fine. As I said, 130 is a rather nice place to be since they can often stay with their peers and not be too bored if given something (I am hoping and assuming).

Now she has another year of preschool and then kindergarten ahead of her before she gets to the level she could do now. What to do. What to do. Would you test her again to see if her IQ is higher--if it were, I might consider early entrance. Almost every day strangers comment on something she says, that to me, is commonplace and taken for granted. We live in an upper middle class (we are at the poorer end of the community)educated community that values education, and she still seems unusual. They often seem quite shocked by what comes out of her mouth. Her little sister is also very bright so I really lose perspective on what is normal. I am truly not bragging, just trying to get a sense of whether it is best to stay on the beaten path or do something else.

She is short, has a baby face,and a May birthday so even if she goes on time, she will be young. She will sit attentively for books, but can get restless if she has to sit in a circle doing something really boring (to her). I hope I am making the right choice to keep her at the preschool she goes to this year for four year old preschool.

I doubt further testing would make much difference towards a decision to put her into early K, she's far enough ahead as it is, and with her later Birthday I suspect the schools would be concerned from the social side. Also, by the sound of it K will probably be almost as basic to her as pre-school - still CVC words, basic adding etc. The one area that might make a difference is how good her fine motor/handwriting is yet. Would pre-school be a whole day thing or half? Being bored for half a day is better than a whole one! If you are with her in the afternoons you would still have the opportunity to show her the world, provide encouragement, and develop her interests in all sorts of areas. In my book this would be more beneficial than full day early K.

Of course, this doesn't help with when she finally does have to go to school, but then a Grade skip or subject acceleration may be easier.

Based on what you wrote, I don't think that there is any question that she is going to need serious accommodations in school. She clearly is. As far as the test is concerned, I would look at it as evidence that she is gifted, but not evidence of how gifted. Even if she is only MG (which doesn't sound like it is the case), she is not going to do well in a regular classroom.

I think now is a great time to think about your options. If she goes to K on time, will your school consider a grade skip a few weeks into school? Will they make significant accommodations within the K classroom? Is homeschooling an option? Are there gifted schools in your area that might provide more challenge?

I wanted to second no5no5's idea on looking at gifted schools.

My oldest dd (now 5.5) sounds very much like your dd. She had a terrible time in a "normal" preschool, but thrived when we switched her to the gifted preschool. It is was/is a non-academic preschool (meaning they don't have to sit around and answer those pesky questions like "what shape is this?"). The curriculum is geared to take on subjects in greater depth -- the kids do things like act out life in a bee-hive (with different kids being drones, the queen, etc), study different cultures, dissect owl pellets. Lots of field trips, foreign language, music, art, etc.

Because of this enrichment in the preschool, I was able to wait and let my May birthday child go to kindergarten with her age appropriate class. She has some immaturity issues, so it really felt like the best choice. Now that we're nearly done with the school year, I still feel that way, though I can't say she didn't tread water in a few areas this year.

I find some of the pre-schools with the best resources are attached to a larger school (schools going up to 8th grade or up to 12th). Are there any options like that available near you? It sounds like there should be in an area you describe as, "upper middle class educated community that values education."

Just some thoughts...

I agree that you should begin looking at all your preschool and kindergarten options now because your daughter is going to need accommodations, regardless of the test scores. When it became clear that my then-3-year-old son had already mastered our local public school's kindergarten curriculum, I visited a private gifted-friendly school. The private school not only recommended enrollment there, but also recommended that DS skip a year of preschool and start kindergarten at 4 1/2, which has been an unmitigated success. After hearing just a few things about my son (including that he read spontaneously and fluently at 2), the private school director described the early enrollment decision as "a no brainer" even though DS5 has never gone through any kind of IQ testing. To her, it was just common sense! So, even if early enrollment isn't an option for your DD due to the May birthday, my advice is to trust your gut, forget the IQ score, and start researching your options. If it seems clear to you and any intelligent observer that another year of preschool followed by regular kindergarten is going to be a mismatch for your DD, then it probably is!

Her fine motor skills are very good, her coloring, drawing, etc. is way ahead, and her letter writing is good, but not great. Her preschool is only two and a half hours twice a week this year and three days for two and a half hours next year then kindergarten will be five days a week for two and a half hours. Since she is at school so little, she will probably be able to tolerate it, but I worry about attitude issues: towards school, herself, being smart, etc. I guess I am just wanting her to somehow find a place where she fits, kids to talk with, etc. and we haven't had luck with it through playdates, etc. yet.

Well she was only three when she took the test--if she had even been four or five I might have looked at it as more telling. I was thinking the schools might be more convinced if it were higher. There is a gifted school and she would qualify right now, but we really can't afford it so I am trying to figure out how the public school might work for her. Based on personality, abilities, and observation, it does appear that she is going to need SOMETHING in the next year or two, but I don't know what. Time will tell I guess.

It looks like you got some solid advise and I doubt I could really add anything especially if money is an issue. As for the IQ test ... really before age 8 the stats generated are not considered accurate so (personally) I wouldn't retest at this point unless a school is requiring it. When I first stumbled into gifted my gut reaction was that I wanted solid proof of where my DD was at on the gifted chain but got over that pretty quickly and at this point in time, have no future plans on testing unless to meet a requirement for a school. We have one gifted school in our metro area and I really don't see it as an option for us due to the distance we would have to travel every day.

I hope you find a solution and know you have pondered the social preschool choice for a while, but it does sound from your description that your DD might be getting to the point that she is tiring of the simple curriculum and getting frustrated.

well I finally went in to talk to the school director and she said that she and my daughter's teacher have spoken and they are both "concerned" about how much father ahead she is. I will meet one on one with her preschool teacher tomorrow. I got the sense that they would consider trying her with the kindergarten class next year, but were worried about her social life. I am actually hoping there is a way to make things work for her at this school next year and my sense is they are willing to do something. I asked, and she is the only one of her kind in the program this year and it is a fairly large preschool with many classes. I still don't have an answer, but was actually comforted by the experience since they clearly saw that she was way ahead and were worried about things just not being right for her in their program and were caring and talked with me for a long time. I am still not sure what we are going to do,but if felt nice that they were so supportive and didn't throw "they all level out in third grade" etc. Now I hope we can come up with something that will work for her.

DSnow6 was in this same boat. And I was so frustrated. In fact, we found that private care was a better option than a preschool until a year before he was going to the state funded pre-K. In the end, I gave up trying. I found a good school though, a teacher that understood he was above level... and even in the state funded pre-K, where the teacher couldn't go out on too much of a curriculum tangent for DS, she found things that would curb some of the boredom for him. He started K in August, and it was immediately recognized by his teacher that he did not belong there... and now he's in 1st and in Target (ALP). Looking back, though I know he was bored and know he could've easily been above even where he is now with a little challenge added into his preschool days, it probably did help him to learn to socialize with peers that aren't quite where he is academically, which has helped him even after his grade skip (he's at the top in his class, even as the youngest). I guess my point is, we had to find something that worked temporarily until he got to K. I don't know if the right answer is to fight to the end or just sit and wait, but either way, good luck!

Have you tried talking to other preschools in the area? You may find one with a teacher that might just get your DD.