Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Grinity Needs Advice ((Long))

Dear Ones,
I'm at an interesting crossroad with my son's eduation, and I'm not sure which way to turn, so I'm asking for your advice.
The set up:
DH and I have agreed that academics and social have equal weight. We want a happy kid who is used to the idea that learning takes a bit of struggle. Learning, and not just teacher pleasing, although we want him to learn that also!

DS11 was in public school until the end of 4th grade, age 9, with a summer birthday, already making him one of the youngest boys in his grade. I'm not sure what his Ruf Level estimated level is because I can't remember! He had an amazing vocabulary and was a conceptual thinker right from the begining, but although he had his letter and their sounds from age 2, he wasn't reading until first grade, although from then on he's been in the top reading groups and in fact spent 4th grade with a book open in his desk reading it while he kept his hand raised waiting impatiently to be called on at all times. He has scores that put him in the YSP, and from reading the posts, I would put him with the big clump near the cutoff, rather than on the tail end, so I call him a Level III.

I could still have gifted denial, but he did get a chance to skip enter a pre-algebra class totally unprepared from 4th grade without any help, and tanked - 40s on his quizes, although he was entranced with the experience of trying to work really hard, so all in all, I think it was worth taking the chance. I just wished I had hothoused him a little rather than relying totally on the goodness of gaps!

When he bottomed out back in 2nd grade, we had him tested, and the tester (local, well meaning but....) said that he might have a "relative case" of NVLD. Over the years we've been told he has "50% ADHD." He certainly has an 'in your face' personality, and lots of OverExcitablities, which have sort of faded into the backround. It's always been hard to tell if he has 'other issues' or his 'more than usual giftedness' are the cause of the various complaints that continue to surround him as he goes through life at school like an elephant swallowed by a snake.

Anyway. Socially he's had his ups and downs over the years. 2nd grade was the absolute worst, where the teacher and all the children treated him with disgust. 3rd was wonderful, 4th was good, but his distrust of adults was growing and I could feel him moving into a "total friend-identification" phase that I felt was a premature reaction to total boredom at school, and his disgust that he has to sit there all day with 'good behavior' as his only challenge.

So that summer we looked into private school, and worn out from unsuccesful advocacy attempts, I was willing to believe that maybe the local prep school would be more academically challenging without any gradeskip. He started 5th grade at the new school, and after a few weeks we recognised that the only way to make this work was a gradeskip. Interestingly the school recognised this also, and within 10 days of our request, he was a 6th grader.

He worked very hard to do the work, and fit in, and try to make friends. He had his heart set on a group that never really accepted him. But overall I had the feeling that he just didn't have much left over energy for making new friends. He stayed in touch with the closest of his old friends, but, as DH had predicted, it just wasn't the same without seeing them daily.

This year, 7th has been much better organizationally, and somewhat better socially, (he got elected to be a student representative) and his perfectionism is much improved. Used to be that if he didn't know what to do, he would just "take the zero." Cool as a cumber, at least on the outside. The middle school goes to 8th grade, and we have always thougth that at the end of 8th, he would go back to the public school. Level III kids tend to do well at the high school level, right?

Well, we got the "Please sign next year's contract" and DS said, "Well, I'd like to go the public school next year." We dropped the subject for a few weeks, but I can tell that DS's mind is made up. I think that the only thing that would change it is if some of the boys started really wanting to be best friends with him. And there are only 45 kids/grade at the private school, v. 200/grade in the public. None of his classmates play Magic Cards, or even Yu-gi-oh!

Some PG kids seem fairly oblivious to social situations, and as long as they are academically challenged, they are happy. Some PG kids are acutly aware of social interactions and have amazing powers to blend it. My son seems to be right in the middle of these two poles - wanting to be popular, but having no interest, and little ability, to blend in. Can you picture my 'voice' on an arrogant-sounding 11 year old boy? ((I'm shaking my head, 'cause I know that some of you can!))

Reasons?
His sound like this at various times -
-The private school is excellent at teaching study habits, and has served it's purpose well, so now I don't think it's a wise investment.
-I've got the grade skip, so why not?
-The dress code cloths aren't comfortable enough.
-I miss my friends, and want to go to the same school as them.

Mostly I trust his instincts. But in this situation, I think that the paradise lost thing is active in his mind. I would like to let him choose, as he's the one who has to get up and go there every day, but I want to be sure that he hasn't built up an unrealistic picture in his mind of how great the public school would be. I worry that his current school is more 'accepting' of offbeatness, although for all I know, they could be worse than the public school. I know that this year the begining of school was stressful, and that the teachers who were new to him didn't 'get him' and he didn't 'get them' but then after about 6 weeks something clicked and he's been about to be responsible for his homework and classwork, even with the new teachers.

So, is returning to the public school, one year advanced, 'social suicide' as my son would put it? Is there anything I haven't considered? Does anyone have a crystal ball?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

No advice now, but that won't stop me from giving some later!

From what I've read, gifted children learn at a faster rate. So it seems that a grade skip might only provide short term results before the child feels bored with the pace of the higher level. Does this seem to be holding true for your son? Does he want to put his educational advancement on the back burner while his social skills catch up with the rest of his development? Does he want to explore a more broad selection, and not quite as deep right now? I guess I'm just trying to understand him a bit better.

Hi Grinity. That is a really tough one, and I can't exactly speak from experience as a parent, because my oldest is in 1st grade. BUT, as someone who went to a very small private school from K to 8 - I felt very pigeon holed there the entire time. Groups of kids didn't really wildly shake up the cliques after the first couple of grades. I was a very shy kindergartener. I never felt enabled to reinvent myself until high school. So I definitely understand where's he's coming from. But it is also totally true that expectations at that age can be very different from reality, so make sure you lay that out for him as clearly as you can. But I do know for me socially, a bigger school was always a better school. I chose to go to a huge university for that very reason.

Anyway - keep us posted! Good luck.

Grinity-

Wow, this is a big decision. I think you need to sit down with DS and DH and really look at the school situation from every angle. I don't feel like I know your DS well, but it seems to me that he would not ask to go back to public if he hadn't thought about it carefully.

FWIW, My HG+ little brother went from private school to public with hopes of making it socially as a athlete. His private school was super competitive, and he was a good athlete but a late bloomer and a head shorter than most of the other guys in grades 9 and 10. He played varsity lacrosse but didn't make the hockey team. It was harder for him to connect with the public school kids, and it wasn't that we were wealthy- we were most definitely not. But he was a very sensitive kid and had a lot of anxiety and perfectionism issues that made it tough for him to feel comfortable in the much larger public school. I don't know if this example means anything to you, but my mother has always felt that moving him was a big mistake. It was as if his expectations for himself got lowered as he struggled more with
the social stuff.

Good luck!

For some odd reason, this years 'content' isn't as impressive as last year's.

Science has been great both years.
Last year - history and LA were combined into Ancient Studies, which included India and China, and all the kids took latin.
This year - social studies is "Geography" and LA is has been 'America and Europe in the 1940' which was too scary, and a wonderful little novel that he read in 4th grade.

Big difference in novelty factor, and depth factor.

Math this year is easy peasy, the same math that was such a big challenge last year for 3 months. He isn't bored to the point of acting out, in fact it's his favorite class.

But the whole picture add up to "is this all there is?"

HTH,
Grin

Hi Trinity,

I think that it would be better for your son to stay in private school for one more year then go to a public high school after 8th grade. That way, he only has to deal with a new school once.

If he goes back to public middle school, he has to make new friends anyway because of his grade skipping. The friendship of middle school kids usually won't last unless they see each other every day in class. It is like starting over. Then one year later, he moves on to high school, a new environment again. It is a lot of stress for the kids who are not superbly social.

However, if your son felt strongly about going back to public school next year, he may have some good reasons.

My kids grow up in public schools so I don't know much about private schools. From what I heard, I would agree with kimck. Kids can be pigeon holed easily in a small private school. It could be great or it could be really bad. In public school, you have a lot more kids. Your son should be able find someone to be friend with in a class of 400.

At the beginning of freshman year, there is a short time period that kids are open to newcomers. He needs to make some effort to talk to new people and try to fit in. After a few weeks, groups are formed and it would be much harder to break into the circle.

Hmm. So he'd be going back to public high school either way, right?

There are some variables here that I'm curious about.

Do kids from the private middle school tend to go on to the public high school? Does your ds have a group of friends in the public school that you think would stick around for high school, with an enormous new peer base to choose from? Or are they kind of "situational friends" (that's the sort I had in middle school), who you're friends with because they're the best available?

My first thought is to say that, if a number of the private schoolers go on to the public high school, I'd probably make him stay in the private school. He'll be going into high school with an entirely new peer group anyway -- his old classmates wouldn't be there for another year, so he'd be starting fresh with high school if he went back to public school before then.

I think going back could be hard socially, yes -- as if your ds "got around the rules" by going somewhere they let him skip (I know that wasn't your intention, but it would be the way it appeared to outsiders). Teacher and administrators might not like that and, horrible as it sounds, take it out on your ds.

Of course, I might be completely wrong and it might go fine -- there may be no backlash from that. I'd just be wary. Are the fourth grade and the sixth/seventh grades in the same building? If so, I almost certainly wouldn't do it, because at least around here, the school administrators have long memories, and I don't think they'd take kindly to getting back a kid who they'd refused to accelerate, but accelerated a year! :-)

Nope, DS isn't calling it social suicide, but that's exactly what DH, and his (MG?) nieces are worried about. For me, big number is always better - look at me here! I really need a whole internet to feel really at home - LOL.

Public High School isn't exactly a given, which makes me think that a year of public middle school might be just what's needed to get us to 'wake up and smell the coffee' if we need to start trolling for a private HS.

Yes - Placement for High School is determined in 8th grade.

No - Private school kids don't go back to public school, and the few that do are spread out amoung 7 different districts. The friends from Public school may just be friends for life, hard to tell.

It's really hard to know what to do.
Smiles,
Grinity

Grinity,
I think you were just borrowing a recurring term from your son in reference to your ponderings as to whether or not going to public school for 8th grade would be �social suicide�. Yes?

I just found your post. We are facing similar questions as to what to do with dd next year for HS and are considering an inconvenient and expensive possibly change for ds.

We are off to BB practice right now, but I wanted to let you know that I am thinking of your family�s situation and will contemplate any additional pros or cons to add to the discussion.

That's right Delbows,
It's hard to think that a boy who throws around that prase would willingly walk into a situation like the 8th grade public school. OTOH, he has had recent playdates with his old Public school agemates, and he's been getting the inside scoop from them, and getting along with friends of friends who he wouldn't have mixed with back when he was in public school.

Here's how the math goes:
4 elementary schools with 80 to 100 kids per grade funnel into two middle schools, which funnel into one high school. Add in the afterschool sports teams, and the boys have eye recognition of about 75% the kids they met see in 9th grade by the time it starts. (My wild guess)

No magic ball here. And I don't have homeschooling in my back pocket, due to lack of family members in town.

I'm inclined to decide that there is no way to decide. Prayer time!
Love and More Love,
Grinity