Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Fuming and frustrated

DD7(almost) is in 2nd grade, as many of you know. She is an extremely sensitive child who goes out of her way to obey rules and behave (at least in public, and especially at school). Well, when I came to pick her up today she asked if I had brought her change of clothes since we were staying for an event at the school tonight. She then specifically asked if I had brought clean underwear. Immediately I asked why, and what happened. Well, now that I have heard the whole story, I am fuming!
Apparently, while at school today her class went to the computer room for a lesson. The teacher spend a lot of time explaining what they were suppose to be doing. DD started dancing around and wiggling because she had to go to the bathroom so badly. The teacher has a rule though that you can not ask to go to the bathroom if she is speaking until she is done! If you interrupt her to ask you are told "no you can't go" and you get in trouble! Well, the teacher told her to sit down and stop dancing around. DD did so, because she knows if she interrupts she gets in trouble and as a result she wet her pants! To the point that she left a big puddle on the floor and it ran down her legs and into her shoes!
Well, as soon as she was able she asked to go to the bathroom and she says she spent about 10 minutes in there trying to dry her pants off with toilet paper and cleaning herself up.
She was so embarrassed with what happened she didn't tell her teacher, or anyone else about it all day until she saw me. By that point in time she was so upset about it she had made herself sick to her stomach! So not only did she wet herself, but she also then spent the rest of the day in wet clothes!
What 2nd grade teacher makes kids so afraid of asking to go to the bathroom that they feel that they have no choice but to pee their pants rather than interrupt?!?!?!

DH and I already feel that this teacher is trying to "prove" to us that DD is not "as gifted as we think she is" (despite all the test results and obviousness of it). We are also beginning to feel that she is deliberately being unfair to DD because DD is not fitting her idea of what a gt kid is.

An example of this is that earlier this week, DD had to redo homework that she had done quickly and messy. Now, I agree that it was too messy, but she was required to redo the answers as well, even though they were not wrong - just not up to the level the teacher was expecting from DD. At the same time however, DD heard the teacher telling another student that his paper was too messy too, but that he was not required to redo his work, just be more neat next time. And, most of the class had gotten one of the questions wrong but noone else was required to redo the work. DD was very upset that she was being picked on by the teacher because she was the only one who had to redo the work.

DH and I are at the point that we think DD needs to be changed to another room, but don't know how to approach the subject with DD, who will be very upset if she is moved to another class. (She will think she is being punished, rather than being taken out of a bad situation )

Any ideas/thoughts/comments on what we should do?

Thanks for listening!

Honestly I would simply tell her that it is not fair for her to be held to a different standard than the other children (fair does not mean equal, but right for everyone). If she is expected to do different work then that work should be held to the same standards as the other children's work, but if they are not expected to redo messy work or redo wrong answers then she should not be expected to redo messy work or redo correct(!!!) answers.

The class is right for the other students, but is no longer right for her, therefore the best way to be fair to her is to move her to another class with more objective expectations. Be honest with her. Kids tend to have a sense of what is right and I'm sure she feels that something is off.

Personally I would find it hard not to take exception to the fact that my child could not go to the toilet when required and would be compelled to speak to the teacher about it. I would speak to DD first to establish if this was a one off or if she did need to go to the toilet quite often when in class. If she did I would explain to her about using the toilet during breaks so there is less disruption to the class and then speak to the teacher about strategies that can be used at school to prevent this happening as I do not find it acceptable that my daughter wets herself in class. If it was a one off I would say that I expect the teacher to know my daughter well enough that if she needs to go to the toilet she NEEDS to go to the toilet and again it isn't acceptable that she wets herself.


I too would be straight with her and explain the reasons why you think she should be moved. Give her examples of your concerns and openly discuss them with her. That way, maybe? she won't think she is being punished.

That is so sad, and infuriating. We used to take my ds to a tae kwon do studio where one of the instructors would do the same to students, not let them go until an exercise was complete, or some such. Ds was able to comply, and we were almost always there watching anyway, but physical needs like this should not NOT be put on hold. I really didn't like it.

I'm going to disagree here. Aren't we hoping that teachers will give our children work that is appropriate to the student (that is...harder?) Aren't we hoping that the teachers will see that our children can do more and should do more?

Ok the pee thing wasn't a good moment, and I would make an appointment and visit the teacher to 'hear her out' about it and politely make a request that she make space for your DD to ask to go to the bathroom. I wouldn't do it expecting the teacher to change, just to have a face to face moment, and to express your concern.

Your DD sounds to me like the kind of kid who could brainstorm ways to pee in advance so she doesn't get caught in the future. Why take away your daughter's chance to learn from this yuckky experience, which afterall, is now over, and probably won't effect her in anyway.

I would praise your daughter for cleaning herself up, and for having the fortitude to continue the day. Fortitude is a great quality, and the more your daughter practices it, the more of it she will grow.

It may be that this teacher is 'out to prove your daughter isn't so smart' and if that is the case, you may want to try to get her out of that classroom, though a skip, part time from a subject acceleration, or a transfer. But I really DO NOT see anything here that I would use to build a case that this teacher has it in for your dd.

In fact, you can probably shift this situation by appreciating the things that the teacher is doing well (there has to be something!) on a weekly basis. One of those: 'I just have to appreciate you for the weather project. It's great to see DD so excited to learn about clouds. 100% of teachers are human, and 100% of humans have their moments. Ourselves included, yes?

Love and More love,
Grinity

Which is why I followed that with "If she is expected to do different work then that work should be held to the same standards as the other children's work, but if they are not expected to redo messy work or redo wrong answers then she should not be expected to redo messy work or redo correct(!!!) answers."

I agree in differentiation, but I also believe in fairness. It is one thing to do work at a different level, quite another to be held to a different standard on that work. If no one else has to redo messy work, a gifty shouldn't either. If no one else has to redo their correct answers, a gifty shouldn't either. It is one thing to get appropriate work. It is a totally different issue if the child is being held to an unreasonable standard compared to the other children. When this happens the child becomes separated from the group in a very non-positive manner. The child's gifts become curses and they are trained to be perfectionists. There is a HUGE difference between appropriate differentiation and inappropriate standards based on a teacher's misunderstanding of or dislike for the child.

P.S. I didn't even comment about the bathroom thing because it was just so over the top imo. I see the point, but NO child should have to go through that.

A similar situation happen to my DS7. During computer lab he had to use a restroom but didn't ask because the teacher she had already told the class if they didn't finish their computer typing that they would miss recess. When I picked Ds7 from school he had a change of pants. When class was over he marched straight to the nurses office and told her the situation. His teacher didnt even know he had change his clothes. I praised him for they way he handle the situation.Nobody knows but me the nurse and him. No child should have to go through that. I would take this situation to a higher authority. Remember we as parents are in charge

As a preschooler my daughter had a situation where the ballet teacher wouldn't let her go to the bathroom. She was so upset by this. Years later, when this ballet class comes up in conversation, DD complains about this.

DD (last yr in K) threw up on the floor during a special time the kids were getting instructions to make cookies. I asked her why she didn't leave the room or ask for help to go to the nurse? She said the class was told not to talk. I think she was so driven to be very good at school and took be quiet too literally. This was one awesome teacher. The teacher said normally she is not afraid to speak up to her. I tend to really trust my DD. This time, I think my child's view was distorted.

I'm not saying this is your situation. I just think this is something to consider. Good luck dealing with this. I hope the situation gets better soon.

All this stuff you are saying above, it just doesn't make sense to me. I can't understand how you think that your child is so fragile that she has to be treated 'just so.' I think you are trying to 'cut hairs' here in a way that no one could be expected to follow. It is totally unfair to you and your family that your child was even placed in this classroom to start with. And it is unfair that no one at the school can see who she is and what she needs. And it is unfair that this falls in your lap to fix or let remain unfixed. Totally unfair. But saying that it's unfair isn't going to change anything - problem solving will, so vent here all you want, but then I recommend for you to find a way to be at peace with the unfairness of the situation so you can problem solve.



Personally, I think that it's inherently rude to try and change the way a teacher teachers. ( And I've gotten away with it many times - but it is still an inherently rude thing to do. I've been desperate!) I believe that lots of bad things like perfectionism and social isolation come from being in the wrong classroom. In my experience, when the gap between what the teacher does and what the child needs is so big, the solution is to move the child to a room where the gap won't be so big. It isn't your fault that there are no good alternatives. It just the reality of this current moment.


I totally disagree. I think that every child goes through stuff like this. Kerry, your daughter is strong enough, and she may need to learn some coping skills here. I think that this is a great opportunity to connect with the teacher and to help your daughter connect with her own power. This is a normal and reasonable topic that is your ticket into the Teacher's attention, and could be the start of some real positive change.


Kerry, I can promise that we Gifties have an almost unending supply of grudges, both because of the culture we live in that does real harm and really is unfair, and because we are Gifted with the ability to see how good things could be if they were jussssst a little bit different. Or a lot! And we have the Intensity to get worked up about it, and the vivid memory to keep it fresh. This is what I understand 'Outer Directed Perfectionism (ODP)to be. I think ODP is a gift to the world, but it has to be used with great caution and wisdom and finesse. And that takes practice and mistakes - which are normal, no matter what our IDP (inner directed perfectionism) says!

If you hate what I am saying, that's fine with me, but do find someone that you know and trust and get some feedback on this issue, ok? I'm getting way too strong a vibe that you are facing a situation that is throwing you into strong feelings of being unsafe and unsupported and in danger, and that isn't the best frame of mind for problem solving.

Love and more love,
Grinity

Grinity,
I actually have not been back on the board to see responses to my original quote because it has been a busy weekend until now. (Wyldkat disagreed with you)

I do not hate what you are saying, it does differ from my thoughts, but is a valid viewpoint. I am much calmer now about the situation than I was when I first posted. I plan on talking to the teacher Monday when I drop DD off to class so that she can be aware that this happened and so that she will maybe think a bit more before she reacts to my usually quiet and obedient child like she does to some of the other more wild kids in her class.
We have had a long talk with DD about how to handle this if it happens again and ways to avoid it all together. Only time will tell if she has actually thought it through enough to try and avoid it in the future. I know she has thought about it a lot, but whether it will remain with her when needed - we'll see.

As another turn of events, in terms of the bathroom thing, it appears that part of the problem with DD right now is that she may have a UTI. She is starting to show the signs, so she's off to the doctor's tomorrow to check. If this is the case, then it completely explains why she couldn't wait through the teacher's explanation, but does not make the situation of DD being afraid to ask to go to the bathroom ok.

There have also been other issues with this teacher throughout the year that I didn't mention in my original post. She doesn't seem to be interested in helping DD, rather just in doing things to prove that since DD isn't the teacher's preconceived notion of a gifty, that she isn't really gifted. You know, the vicious cycle of DD's frustrated so not doing well, teacher only sees that she's not doing well, which reinforces the teacher's beliefs that dd isn't really gifted, which means she won't give her differentiated work which leads DD to be more frustrated, etc etc etc.

Problem solving is what we have been doing throughout the year, and will continue to do, probably throughout DD's education. We're frustrated that so far our problem solving has lead to too few problems actually getting solved. (Although some have been diminished to the point of being livable.) But this too, I think is the unfortunate lot of giftys at this point in our society.

I love the fact that I can vent here and get feedback and ideas. I don't have anyone here (other than DH) that I can talk to who understands what we're dealing with.