Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Asynchronous Development

Love the Desperate Housewives reference!!! (I'm into that show too!!!) I'd like to know your "secret" too (as I am nosy that way) but I understand your not wanting a paper trail.

I like the idea of modifying classes on case by case basis for all kids. I'd love to see flexibility within all grades so the kids could move freely to the classes they need in whatever grade/level is appropriate. Of course, I don't think that would ever happen as it would be too confusing for the administration, but think what great educations our kids could get if they were placed where they need to be in every subject.

cym,
what a great position to be in, but challenging. I have no remarkable insight right now, but I'll be thinking about this one. Please keep us posted, I am interested to see how you all work this out from the ground floor.

Incog

Hi Cym -
I think there needs to be an array of options to met the needs of the individual student. Here are some ideas on my menu:
1) Get a copy of the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, and pay for the gifted coordinator to get some training in how to use it.
2) Get a copy of Karen Roger's 'Reforming Gifted Education' and study how each of the options can be incorportated at your school
3) My hunch is that if one looks carefully,from every grade level, perhaps using those talent searches, one can find enough students to put a group together for most classes, or bus them to the high school as a group.
4) Try to set up the schedual so that all kids, in all grades, are taking Math at the same time (preferably the same as at the High School) so that there aren't any scheduling conflicts. Same with the other classes.
5) Independent study is a good idea as well. I wish I knew more details about how to set it up, but I think the key is to use cross grade grouping to limit the nescessity, and then arrange with parents on a case by case basis. One can work with books and meet with a teacher once or twice a week. Parents can pay for the online classes, and a PTA fund can be started for children who need the online classes, but whoes parents can't afford it. Also sometime people from the community can be taped to come and teach a single course.
6) If the school is allowed to allow "partial homeschooling" that is a good way to get the flexibility some familys need. Then the child can attend for everything except Math, for example, and the parents can administer the online or tutored Math class, even if they only do it on the weekends.

Remember there are two seperate problems:
1) How to excuse a child from classes that are innapropriate.
2) How to get a subject at a level that is appropriate.

Try to leave loopholes so that both problems can be addressed.
Good for you for doing this!

For the Grandchildren (and occasionally the Children themselves!)
Grinity

For those who worry that they're in the wrong place...

I think that if this site and the wise people on it help you or if you can help someone else, then you belong here. Period. I like that inclusivity. I really hope no one feels out of place if they are even potentially in a position to get something from/give something to the discussion.

Every kid and every school situation is different and poses unique challenges to us as parents. If this forum helps with the challenges we ALL face, then you belong here. 100%!

That's my position and I'm sticking to it!

Well Said Kriston!

I was also thinking about the acronyms and slang we use. My guess is that if you can take the time to get through all the "what are they talking about," you need to be here.

Grinity

Thanks for all the great advice! Being part of the charter school board has been very interesting to me. Just when you think everything is set (charter renewed, policies updated, terrific set of teachers) there's a new challenge.

It's small (20 kids in each of 6th, 7th, & 8th grades...60 total), limiting simultaneous scheduling of classes (there's only one math teacher, e.g. Imagine the little PTA--although we've been successful in raising money for things like a bus ride to have the kids see Mikhail Gorbachev speak in Midland last year. I really like the "contract" idea. The school has the Iowa scale, so that's good, and the teachers are all "highly qualified", plus several are pursuing their "gifted licensure", new requirement in the state.

I agree with grouping--which happens to be in the school's charter/philosophy/mission. At first I was wary of it because I thought, "why can't kids just work independently when they're ready; why are groups so necessary?" In the workplace, I had experiences where groups held you back, added frustration, some would work hard, some were lax, etc. However, I see how the group encourages my DS 11 to work harder than he would independently, so I'm ok with it.

Partial homeschooling is not possible because of funding, but working independently or in small groups is possible. Plus, commuting to the high school or community college would be possible, with parents required to transport, but clearly it would be better (less time) to have credit courses available at the middle school.

Thanks again for all the great ideas. I've also asked DITD counselors for input re: online courses or programming options for gifted ed plan. Here's what they said:

I had a chance to talk with the team. Everyone agreed both Art of Problem Solving and IMACS are great options. The other option we discussed is ALEKS. ALEKS does offer a school program and comes with an online tutor http://www.aleks.com/k12. Crissa knows of a GT Coordinator who used this program at his school and was going to try and contact him to see if we can get some feedback. Online courses would be a great option to have at your school. However, with any new addition there will be drawbacks. For example, some students may really prefer to work with someone directly, while others may really enjoy a distance program for the sake of working at their own pace. As I understand it, the student could either work in the classroom on the material or go to the computer lab. It probably would be a good idea to have someone present in the room for questions and monitoring. I believe most programs have print out sheets or progress reports and exams, so proctoring probably will not be needed. As you know, it will be hard to please everyone, but this is a wonderful option. I don�t know of too many schools who offer their students distance learning as a choice.


Is there anyone at school who is an Educators Guild member? If some is, or wants to sign up they can post to the e-List and get feedback from educators http://www.davidsongifted.org/edguild/ If someone isn�t able to sign up, I can ask Aimee, our Educators Guild Director to post to the E-list. You may also want to take a look at http://www.bestevidence.org/. This is a great tool that allows you to see ratings of programs and they do have math programs.


I know you may have most of this information below; however you may find it helpful with your decision making process.


Books and a website



� Building a Gifted Program http://www.giftedbooks.com/productdetails.asp?id=40

� Aiming for Excellence: Gifted Program Standards; Annotations to the NAGC Pre-K Grade 12 Gifted Program Standards http://www.nagc.org/acb/stores/1/product1.aspx?Product_ID=69

� Designing Services and Programs for High-Ability Learners http://www.nagc.org/acb/stores/1/Designing-Services-Programs-for-High-Abilit y-Learners-A-Guidebook-for-Gifted-Education-66-P187C0.aspx

� How Academic Talents Are Developed & Nurtured in America http://www.a1books.com/cgi-bin/mktS...gbase&rel=1&ITEM_CODE=0889371121

� Gifted Education: Promising Practices http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Resources_id_12331.aspx

� Re-Forming Gifted Education http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10044.aspx

� Belin-Blank Center for Gifted Education Professional Development services http://www.education.uiowa.edu/belinblank/professional/



Articles



� Twelve Cost Effective Educational Options for Serving Gifted Students http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10363.aspx

� Successful Strategies for Teaching Gifted Learners http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10075.aspx

� Basic educational options for gifted students in schools http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10270.aspx

� Individual instruction plan menu for the gifted child http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10272.aspx

� Best Practices of Schools that Nurture Excellence http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10289.aspx

� What the Research Says About Gifted Learners http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10292.aspx

� Planning effective curriculum experiences for gifted learners http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10278.aspx

� Gifted children: Are their gifts being identified, encouraged, or ignored? http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10169.aspx

Here's are some of my images of asynchronous development:

DD age five, wearing pink silk shaped into a "gown", with a sparkling tiara on her head. She's playing chess.

DS age two, sitting on his Elmo potty chair, reading an adult guide book titled, "101 Questions About the Seashore".

I'd love to hear more about your asynchronous kids!

My DS3 is definitely asynchronous. He met all his milestones on time or way before, but physically and socially he has always been delayed, mostly within normal limits though.

At his third year check-up, I told his doctor that I was concerned because he is so far advanced cognitively but slower than his peers in his social and gross motor development (for example, at that time he never said hi to anyone unless prompted; he could not ride the tricycle or walk up the stairs as fast as other kids; his running looked a lot like a kid I know with cerebral palsy). The doctor did not pay any attention to how he might be gifted but suggested that DS get tested for Asperger�s and physical disability. I was disappointed but agreed to get DS tested because I didn�t think there would be any harm in getting tested. After spending about three hours in filling out the paper work that was mailed to me by the Asperger's specialty clinic, and then doing my own research on Asperger�s and giftedness, I decided it could in fact be harmful to entrust a gifted child to the mental health care professionals who are ignorant of characteristics of gifted children and mislabel them with a mental illness. The book, Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults by Webb, et al., (2005), and the article, Is Asperger syndrome/high-functioning autism necessarily a disability? by Baron-Cohen (2000) were especially helpful and reassuring. DH and I are now convinced that DS�s giftedness combined with his introversion could be mistaken for Asperger�s. We will wait and see at least another year before getting him tested for Asperger's. I know getting that diagnosis is not a horrible thing if that's what's appropriate (as I'm sure Lorel can tell you better than I can) so we're open to the possibility. But I think he is catching up socially (or maybe it's other kids who are catching up with him). I think he will always be viewed by others as "weird" because his observations and preferences for discussion topics are unusual for his age, but he does not stand out so much now that other kids his age are also developing widely diverse interests. Before, other kids would all gravitate toward blocks and noise-making toys (and often get into physical altercations which would always get DS extremely upset) while DS would sit in the corner by himself and skip count by 2's and 5's or set up marbles to represent the solar system; now, it seems all the kids his age, including my DS, actually listen to each other with interest and verbally express their thoughts, which DS feels much more comfortable with.

I did choose to see a physical therapist though. Her eval was that he was about 4 months behind in gross motor skills but not delayed enough to warrant a special treatment. On the side, she told me not to worry, that she thinks the problem is just that DS is extremely cautious and does not like to try things he is not 100% sure he can do. His difficulty is caused more by his personality than any actual physical problem. It was reassuring because that is exactly what I had suspected.

As far as emotional growth, I'm not sure what's going on there. Starting very early, like age 1 or 2, he would quietly shed tears while listening to classical music or get upset if an animal or an insect would get hurt, so I know he is capable of emotional depth. But he does not empathize with people very well. I'll just have to wait and see how he develops as he gets older.

Anyway, I hope the description of DS and my experiences help others who are going through a similar situation!

Junior

Junior-

I was both crushed and elated to get DS's diagnosis. It finally made sense of all his quirks and foibles, yet I also was sad to have to let go of the idea that he would be a regular kid.

My advice is to embrace a label only if you think it will help you to understand and assist your child. You know your child better than anyone else.

take care-

Doctors tried to tell us that my son's physical differences were not bad enough to require therapy. One doctor told us that he had a friend in college that probably had mild hypotonia and wasn't quite as coordinated as other people and he made it sound like it was just individual differences--kind of like hair color, nothing to be too concerned about. His friend also did musical theater like my son.

My 9 year old who didn't walk until he was 18 1/2 months old and never crawled who probably should have had physical therapy never received it. His doctor would not sign the paperwork to authorize PT but instead referred him to a neurologist who couldn't find anything wrong but said he couldn't rule out a congenital myopathy. Shortly after that he started walking and they seemed to think he was okay.

He didn't go to preschool so I didn't realize that he was still physically different. But when he started Kindergarten at age five he was afraid to go up and down stairs and he would talk to the teacher on the playground instead of playing with the other kids. He couldn't cut well or color in the lines very well or draw well but he could read well and his favorite book to read was a science encyclopedia which he brought to school to read to the class with his letter of the week show & tell for the letter E. The kids were just not interested in the things he was. The only thing I remember seeing him do with the other kids was play with the puppet theater and pretend he was different characters with voices and everything and the other kids seemed to like this. He found that he could make other people laugh and he really enjoyed this. This is how he deals with this mild invisible disability.

At age seven he saw a developmental pediatrician, was tested by an OT, and he was also given the WIAT by certified educational psychologist. They told me he was gifted, that he did not have Aspergers, and that I should have him do activities from the Out of Sync Child Has Fun and get him a chin up bar for his room. We did all of that and he still has problems. I realize now that his biggest problems have more to do with motor planning and apparently this did not show up on the test the OT gave him. Since he had learned (with great difficulty) how to skip and do forward rolls in dance and gymnastics he could do the things on the test so it didn't look like there was much of a problem. At the time I couldn't understand how other people could see these differences but the professionals couldn't. The developmental pediatrician did not give us a diagnosis but in the report it mentioned his vestibular and proprioceptive sensory issues which led to my reading about sensory integration dysfunction and my son has a lot of the characteristics for vestibular and proprioceptive dysfunction. He also fits a lot of what I have read about motor dyspraxia.

The only therapy he received was vision therapy which helped with tracking issues and helped him read for longer periods without his eyes tiring, but I still don't think he can read as long as other people without getting tired and I worry that this will cause problems with testing.

We hope to get a diagnosis for in a few weeks so he can explain to other people what this difference is, if he chooses to. Other kids notice the difference, especially at things like obstacle courses at his scout camps. New kids in the theater class wonder why I still have to help a nine year old with fast costume changes. Although he does not have an unusual gait, he runs a little differently. He takes longer to learn a series of dance steps than anyone else in his musical theater group but can memorize words and songs faster than most of them, even the older teenagers. People don't understand this difference. He doesn't appear physically different and he seems so smart in every other way--he enjoys reading psychology related books and articles, loves playing MMORPG games and wants to learn how to design computer and video games, is two years advanced in math in spite of handwriting difficulties and always wanting to solve problems in a different way than I was taught, is practicing for a spelling bee, and he can carry on a conversation about so many things because he reads the news online or listens to it. They notice that he seems a little weaker and has a little less endurance than they do. He refuses to do crafts around other kids and I don't force him to. He is self conscious about the way he draws so he won't do it in front of other people. I wish I had demanded therapy of some kind. I wish I hadn't heard about gifted kids and asynchronous development and overexcitabilities because I thought that is all it was so I didn't demand therapy for his differences. I wish I could say that I tried everything. Now I wonder if it is too late.

I also thought maybe he was just very cautious when he would stand and watch other kids for a while before getting on playground equipment. I used to hate those indoor playgrounds at fast food restaurants because if my son got the nerve to go up in one he couldn't get up the nerve to come down the slide or down the ladder and I would have to go up in the thing and get him. People tell me that "he thinks too much" before he tries anything.

My son did something else that made some people think he might have Aspergers but can also be a sign of sensory issues--he flapped his hands when he got excited. He stopped doing this in public, but my sister thinks he must have Aspergers because he used to do this and he talks like an adult using a better vocabulary than most adults where we live and the fact that he started reading at 2 1/2 without being taught. But he is very social and his social skills are better than mine. I was extremely shy as a child and wouldn't look people in the eye and wouldn't speak to people outside of my family and I have two uncles who are engineers and I think if you have engineers in the family they automatically think possible Aspergers.

I do not have Aspergers. I was just a very shy kid with anxiety problems. I don't doubt for a minute that my son would be misdiagnosed with Aspergers if he were more like the way I was as a child. I didn't really overcome my shyness until I was an adult.

I think it must be difficult for doctors to make a diagnosis for such outside-the-box children and that is why I continue to learn as much as I can on my own about my son's issues. But my son still just thinks I should just quit worrying about it and accept his differences. He seems happy enough and I don't think he has any major self esteem problems, except for the occasional comments about other kids thinking he is a geek or "white and nerdy." Since he homeschools, he is only around friends who accept him for who he is and who seem to really enjoy his company and he doesn't have to deal with the bullies at school that his gifted friends who don't do sports have to deal with.