Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school please inundate me with advice :-)

If you want to advocate for a skip, I highly, highly recommend starting very early (like, in October of the year before she starts school). Public schools can be very slow to move, and they may try to put you off as much as they can. They also like to say, "We'll put her in K and observe for a while." By then, you're way past trapped.

Remember, their mandate is to deal with the lower third of their classes. NCLB punishes schools for low test scores and offers no reward or recognition whatsoever for high achievers. Thus, the schools are basically forced to make high achievers a low priority. Keep this idea foremost in your mind as you deal with schools.

Many educators also don't believe in grade skips or even cognitive giftedness. You can suss out a principal on this subject by asking how often children in his/her school skip a grade or get acceleration in a single subject. If you're told "never," you'll have a steep uphill battle on your hands.

Again, if you can send her to a private school, even if only for a year, you might want to consider the idea. Because private schools need tuition money and because they aren't affected by NCLB, they're more open to grade skips and other forms of acceleration. They'll also be more open to meeting you well in advance of enrollment (many start their open houses in December of the year prior to enrollment). This will give you time to let them get to know her. If they can be exposed to her over time, the shock of a pre-schooler who can read will be reduced and she'll become more "normal" to them, if you see what I mean.

I say "even if only for a year" in private schools because the public schools usually have to promote a child who has finished a grade at another school and passed(EXCEPT for kindergarten; check your state's policies).

BUT, if you go the private school route, don't give them a check until you get stuff in writing. The prospect of your enrollment is a big carrot for them. But once they have a check, it's a done deal. If you're advocating for a grade skip, an enrollment form with the higher grade circled would be enough, for example.

I hope I'm not coming across as being too negative about the public schools. I would love to be able to send my kids to the local schools, but I can't. One local principal told me he'd never done a grade skip and never would, on principle. The other one wasn't so black and white, but she was close. But this was only our district. Other people on this list have reported having wonderful, supportive public schools (Oh! How I envy y'all!).

You could always do this: call the schools or district office and just ask them about their policies on acceleration. Make a list of specific questions,and try to get specific answers.

Val

Thanks, Val. I take every suggestion to heart and truly appreciate the insight of those who have gone before me. I appreicated your angle on the motivation of the private schools. I'm sure you are right about the carrot and the limitations in the schools due to NCLB. The public school has no motivation to work with me or even let me come check out their program.

The more I hear, the more I think I will keep her in pre-k next year then find a private K that will work with her at her level, or a private school that would let her jump to first grade. I may speak to the school she is attending now. They already know she is very advanced, but I am not sure how they might accomodate her if we go there next year and there for kindergarten. The one negative thing I see is that she already is hiding skills because "children my age don't (fill in the blank). I bet they would let me observe their kindergarten.


I am going to call the public school again today, and will ask directly about accelaration. When I called before they said "all our kids are gifted" (I hate that phrase; they wouldn't say "all our kids are talented violinists").

One thing I worry about is that she is already younger than many at her level and is impulsive and emotional by nature and that would make her two years younger and I don't know how mature she will be. Her language is very mature though and she uses words like concentration, structure, expression, cumulonimbus, figurines, expression, etc. (she tends to use the proper formal terms for things,will say "flatulence" for gas told people Santa gave her a "plush toy" for Christmas etc. and very precise, clear speech) where some kids in her three year old preschool are barely spitting things out so it would be nice for her to eventually have children she can actually talk to around.

I know that is the struggle most parents on here have but since she is only 3.5 I really don't know how gifted she is. Yes, they gave her tests and some of her abilities are extremely high and none are below what most places call gifted, but she may not be gifted to the point some kids are on here that would require her to actually be in a different grade. She is already past the end of kindergarten expectations and into first grade, but might she one day be in the right place at the "right" grade level?

I am rambling now, sorry...

I've got to run to work, so this will be short, but my dd whom I mentioned above is not PG/DYS. At 7 (after that horrible first grade year) she tested at the upper end of MG on an IQ test. Her achievement scores are all HG+ and she totally refused to complete some of the timed parts of the test, so I'd honestly say that I think that she is more HG than MG but we haven't retested her IQ.

However, she has needed and done well with a grade skip. She, too, was already younger than most in her grade with a late summer/early fall bd. She made the cut-off to start K by 2 weeks. She is now 1-2.5 yrs younger than the kids in her grade and fitting in well socially. She is still at the top of the group in terms of academics -- in the GT/accelerated classes, tested "advanced" on all of the state NCLB tests even the first year following the skip, and still testing in the 99th percentile+ on SRI lexile/reading (the only other achievement testing they've done beyond NCLB).

I wouldn't underestimate your dd's abilities just b/c she is young. She sounds a lot more advanced than my two were at that age and mine are both gifted to some degree or another.

TwinkleToes ... I feel like you could be writing about my dd (now 5.5). She and your daughter share so many of the same qualities (reading at two, early math, amazing memory) -- right down to the May birthday!

I do not have the perspective of some of these parents of older children, but I can share my experience of having dd in kindergarten right now.

Unlike many others, I did not have a great experience with a play-based preschool, but I think that was more due to a poor fit between dd and her teacher. DD also did not find any of the other children in the class to be stimulating as playmates and that prompted her (in her "spirited" kind of way) to find other ways to keep her brain occupied ... which got her into trouble almost daily.

I was really worried that dd was getting the wrong message about school. Even at the age of three. That she would think school wasn't fun. Or that she was "bad" at it. Or a behavior problem. So I pulled her out.

We are lucky enough to live near a gifted private school and we were able to enroll her there. To me, the best part about the preschool experience at the gifted school was how deeply they delved into their units of study (and dd gobbled up every fact), how busy they kept the kids (no time to get into mischief) and the peer group. She is still there now in kindergarten, and is able to subject accelerate in math and reading, all while staying a kindergartner. I, too, worried about her maturity when it came to skipping a grade. This seems like the best of both worlds.

You say you live in an upper middle class district. Are there any gifted schools there? Have you had any experience with other gifted kids in your area? I would imagine they are out there. I've had luck finding some at science camps, or special library programs with science-y topics that appeal to my dd. Even if those kids are quite older than your dd, their parents can provide invaluable information.

Good luck!

No advice just a HUG because I can imagine your angst! I live in a rural area with no gifted opportunities other than what our local school district offers. Fortunately I am able to home school. But I do worry about what will happen if I have to stop home schooling for some reason. Though my dd isn't as advanced as yours, she is still two years or so ahead of her peers so she would be bored at grade level as well.

I think the teacher matters more than anything else. Way more!

To bad they won't let you observe a classroom...It sounds like you think 1st graders understand 'plush toy' and 'structure.' But yes, better than 4 year olds do. Really, how is she supposed to develop her social skills with kids who are litterally speaking a different language?

You won't ever really know, but evenually you'll be able to observe various groups of children and when you finally find a group that she looks 'average' in - then you'll know. To me I think this is going to take some doing. And when I say 'looks' average, I don't mean that she looks like the kid you see at home, not the social construct that she is using at school.



Have you read
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/iowa_accel_scale.htm
Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual? That really helped me understand that single gradeskips are wonderful for the top half of MG kids, and a good 'base' for those 'more unusual' that.

Of course - gradeskips are a compromise. If you have a program that will bring together other kids of a similar level of giftedness and similar age and emotional maturity level (and there are a few like that) then go for it! A compination of full and subject accelerations has also worked well for many kids. Sometimes schools are set up that everyone changes classes for all of their subjects and there is flexability between grades. That's heavenly.

One thing I like about difficult decisions, is that they help me clarify what my values. That's about all I like about them, but it's something.

My basic view is that you are dealing with a situation that our culture hasn't yet figured out how to handle. You will do the best you can, but it just plain won't be what your DDs deserve. The 'least bad' options will probably be enough in the end. Change happens slowly enough that the best we can hope for is to make the small, but continuous changes so that before our grandchildren come along, these questions will have become 'not a big deal.'

For The Grandchildren!
Grinity

This was our experience too. Tried a social preschool and found it was not a good fit. My DD is an August baby and our state cutoff is September 1, so we too have the concern of being the youngest in the class even without a grade skip. Though DD has always been a mature little girl and has never had discipline issues (knock on wood), plus she is incredibly tall for her age so people assume she is much older than her age.

We chose an academic route instead of the social preschool and though we made this switch 2 months ago I have been happy with the way DD has responded. We also knew that if we did make this change we needed to commit to the private school route since her school is academically 2 years ahead. Even with the advancement of the academics we were still concerned it wouldn't be enough but since she is being challenged by learning a foreign language due to it being full immersion it really seems to be a great fit. We also talked to the school about acceleration for if and when she does master the language barrier and am happy to report that the school is 100% behind acceleration.

Please don't think I am pushing private over public but just sharing our choice especially since we started in a social preschool and realized quickly how bad of a decision that was for us. This led us to realize a few things. 1) The social preschool feeds into the public kindergarten which gave me an idea of what level the kindergarten really is at and how bored DD would be. 2) For my DD she doesn't respond to the usual reward system. Her need to accomplish a task comes from within. It was during the whole social preschool that a light went off and it made sense to me. Because of her internal drive it was essential for us to keep her in a place that motivated her because without this we were experiencing the babyish ways and the arguments of kids her age don't do ... It sets the stage for dumbing down (especially in girls) and we clearly saw our DD headed down this path. And if she only showed this attitude in school I might have not been too concerned but it crossed over into everything. The minute she stepped into a challenging environment we got our DD back.

My son was in full-day, play-based preschool/daycare four days a week before we pulled him out for early enrollment in a full-day, private, academic kindergarten that is geared for gifted kids. I was nervous about the move at the time and received some flack for it from my son's preschool teacher, but it was without any doubt the right thing for my son. Although I agree that no academics is better than wrong academics, if you can find a school that offers the right academics, I would go for it. When my son was in preschool, it seemed like every day he brought home some kind of glittery paper-plate and pipe-cleaner craft that immediately went in the trash. Now, he brings home 4th grade reading comprehension quizzes and first grade math worksheets and is crushed if he catches me throwing them away. When he was in preschool, he would whine and mope about having to go to "school" in the morning. During the first few weeks of kindergarten, he cried several times when I picked him up, because he wanted to stay. And although he's the youngest kid in his k-12 school, he's thriving not just academically but socially. It kills me to think that if I had kept him with his preschool classmates, he'd still be gluing glitter on paper plates!

Twinkletoes - you are in the same boat we were when my DS was that age and you are going through the same worries we did so I understand your concerns! everyone has some really good comments and suggestions....I wish that I had found this board way back when...DS7 was in a Montessori program for several years during his preschool time. We knew something was VERY different about him pretty early on. I used to teach Kindergarten for over 10 years in our county and sirens kept going off in my head when I saw that at age 3.5 he had already mastered the Florida Curriculum requirements for Kindergarten. I had NO clue what in the world to do about it. I was just worried about how his needs were going to be met. His montessori class turned into a small nightmare because they had no idea how to handle an advanced, out of the box thinking child.

The year before he was to begin Kindergarten I started asking questions to our local elementary school and tried SO hard to get the ball rolling on some kind of action plan(he has an IEP for speech/OT and had been dealing with the school system since he was 3...and yes, public school systems move like molasses..so if you want anything done, you need to plan on it taking many months before any kind of ball gets rolling). we also heard the "all children are gifted" comment many times. I kept voicing my concern about what was going to occur and how can we best meet his needs. I really tried hard to explain the situation and raise my worries about what do you do with a child who already has the curriculum mastered for the grade he was supposed to be going into and we kept getting passed from one person to the next. Florida does not allow Kindergarten to be skipped so they suggested a charter school that could possibly tweak the curriculum for him.
The charter school pretty much told us everything we wanted to hear because when they found out he had an IEP, they went out of their way to woo us because that meant extra funding for them. We began our K year there and after a few weeks we could see that it was not a good fit and they were not even coming close to doing the things they said they would do with him...the reading specialist one day pulled me to the side and said not to tell the principal or teacher but that DS needed to be grade skipped one or possibly 2 grades and she was the first one who recommended homeschooling to us. It boiled down to the fact that there were too many kids in one classroom who had different needs that were much lower and they did not have the resources or staff who could meet his needs.
So, we pulled to homeschool for the rest of K. DS asked to try school again when it came to first grade this year and I gritted my teeth but agreed to let him try the local elementary school. First grade was our nightmare year from hell. The class was WAY overcrowded and with the huge budget issues occuring across the country in most schools, they were not able to hire any more teachers...he was lost in a huge classroom that had many, many special needs students. (my last year of teaching, I had 12 children on IEPS and 7 of them were severe...I felt absolutely horrible that year because it turned into a 3 ring circus in my class with me trying to juggle such an enormous gap between students). Add in the lovely FCAT hanging over all the teacher's heads and you can guess where the main focus of the teacher was...on the lower children....so I agree with everything Katelyn'sMom wrote...I don't mean to bash public school because there are some amazing ones out there but with all the budget cuts occuring everywhere and all the silly standardized testing stresses put onto schools/teachers...many gifted children are getting lost between the cracks because focus is shifted to the lower level students....I would keep your options open and look at other situations other than public school.