Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school intro to three year old, questions about testing

Hi,

I have a 3.5 year old girl who is talkative beyond belief, emotional,highly extroverted, and so sensitive that we had her evaluated wondering if she had ADHD or something else. They gave her an IQ test (I didn't want one this early but figured they had their reasons so consented) and I think she could have done quite a bit better since she answered many things "wrong" that she clearly knew etc, she seemed to just not be at her best, but still had at least one sub score in the 99th percentile, but overall, "only" scored in the 97th. She took the WPPSi III.

I was told to read Ruf's levels of giftedness and she is all over the place, even having some things in level 5, but really seems to be more at 2 or 3 by those standards, yet the test score seemed more like a level one, but when I read about a level one in that book, she had done many of those things years ahead of what was listed and that didn't seem right. The only reason that matters is that level one gifted often doesn't require any modifications and I am pretty sure she will need them.

I know IQ Testing at 3.4 isn't that reliable anyway, but I was wondering if she would most likely need to be retested and when if we are trying to find out options for preschool and kindergarten since I believe some programs really want the 98th percentile which I am sure she would hit next time just based on knowing what she knows and what she didn't do there. Actually
the school she will be attending has extra activities for children above the 95th, but I am wondering if she may benefit from something more. Maybe Montessori? She has a May birthday. She can already do much of first grade material at three if asked (though I don't do that sort of thing with her at home--no flash cards, no workbooks, etc. She learns things almost after one presentation in passing) If she is only three now, what in the world will happen when she goes to kindergarten two years from now and the things she does are so far behind what she is capable of doing and she is prone to being a little bossy, restless, and a class clown?

I know some people think that some people just want to label kids gifed for some sort of status symbol and push them, but this isn't what this is about. She has been very challenging and already tries to act different, draw differently, speak differently and hide skills and vocabulary around age mates and I don't want her to have to do that or to feel different. She also is sitting through things at preschool that she learned years ago and is by nature, chatty, impulsive, and super high energy so it is hard for her to contain when her energy has nowhere to go at times. She is in a play based preschool and loves the songs and crafts, but much of kindergarten material if not all are things she mastered before this year and I worry what will happen in kindergarten. She will continue to learn at home, but I worry mostly about her emotional health and her behavior since she is so extroverted, talkative, and non-conformist.

I am just looking for a place to chat, connect, and give and get support since I often feel my child is different than my friend's children. Thanks in advance for reading all this if you made it this far. Sorry if any of this is unclear: I am in the middle of a killer headache as I type.

Welcome! It's a little overwhelming when you realize just how ahead your child is. DD is 2.8....I never really recognized her being advance as we were not around many other children her age. When I took her to her 2 year checkup I was shocked when her ped said she was on a 4 year old level cognitivly and I overheard her telling a nurse that DD was the most advanced child she had ever seen in all her years of practice. I immediatly went home and started reading and was floored. DD was way ahead milestone wise and was doing many things inended for 4 and 5 year olds.

It was still hard to grasp but when I started to read more, it explained much about the way DD has always been, highly sensitive, highly verbal, I never realized that most of the things DD seemed to just know (which she just pics up from everyday situations) have to be actually taught to many children.

When we moved and went to her new ped at 2.5 he stated she was on a 5 year old/K level and then proceded to flat out tell me that our local schools wil not work for her. Thats when I found this place. Its hard because in real life there are not many people I can talk to about DD without them thinking I am trying to "label" her or brag about her. It can be very isolating. This place is great. SOmewhere I can talk about her and ask questions without fear of judgement.

About Dr. Ruf, I read her book after comming on here. Loved t and it gave us a lot of insight. One thing I have read here is that Tests can be off. If you don't feel it is a good representation of your child you are probably right. I would go more with your gut about where your DD fits.

Again, Welcome!

Hey Twinkles,
Glad you found us!
Sad to hear that you DD is 'going undercover' so early. You might want to mind a preschool that is willing to let her be in a 'mixed age' classroom with the older kids that will 'make room' for her to be herself.

Keep tracking those Ruf milestones, and I bet that in a few years the pattern will become more obvious.

As for the schools that require 98%, just be glad you have some local options, check into them, and spend some time observing the classroom and seeing if you think that they would be a good fit for your daughter.

It's not as though the IQ tests act like some kind of 'egg sorting' device that neatly channel each child into the kind of classrooms where they will be best served! Too bad about that! But the testing you've done, and your observations, are telling you that she will need some accomidation.

I'm trying to popularise the phrase: 'Gifted is as Gifted does.' to mean that if she is doing Kindy work at age 3, don't send her to kindy at age 5. Try to get her in the learning environment that is closest to meeting the needs she has now, and don't worry about what the IQ test says. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, right?

Sorry to hear about your headache. I've found that talkative gifted children are amazingly effective forms of birthcontrol!

Come talke somemore when you are feeling better, ok?
Grinity

Welcome! I say trust your instincts. If you really can't picture your child going through regular kindergarten two years from now (this started to seriously trouble me when my son had already mastered the kindergarten curriculum at 3 1/2), then I'd recommend looking for other options now. You really can't start too early. Looking at schools, admissions processes and the laws in your state now will also give you a better sense of what additional testing, if any, might be necessary.

My DS4 is in an academic kindergarten now at a small private school that caters to gifted kids and provides individualized instruction in all core subjects. It's a perfect fit for him, and I am certain that I was right to enroll him a year before he would have started public school, but I wasn't so sure of any of this when we first signed him up over a year ago. We don't plan to do any testing until DS is between 5 and 6 (our school didn't require any formal testing for admissions), so so far I've been operating on "mommy gut" and the advice I've gotten on this forum alone. In our case, that has been enough to keep us on the right road.

And the cause of many headaches!! Grins, that was one of the funniest things I ever read and soooo true! Anyway, welcome twinkle! We've all been where you are now so we know what you're feeling, thinking and stressing about.

The important thing to remember is that K is still 2 years away, so worry more about today and less about that. As you get more and more educated answers and options will become clear. Not to say that it's easy. Let's call it "interesting". Flexibility is the key, keep all of your options open and start working on your debate skills (advocate 101). This is an excellent place for answers or when you just need to ventilate!

Welcome, Twinkle Toes.

I want to second the advice to start reading up and looking at your schooling options soon. We knew GD5 was bright & advanced, but never thought about her being Gifted until she taught herself to read at age 3. Her Pre-K year at a private school was pretty bad since it was structured like a Kindergarten class (academically driven rather than play) and the other kids were just learning their colors, numbers and letters. She also was very talkative, active and sensitive and the teachers/school did not "get her" at all. She's now in public school Kindergarten and with no accommodations for her advanced knowledge, she is constantly waiting for the other kids to finish their work etc. and ends up talking, joking, getting up or other acting out and ends up in trouble.

Investigate all options first for a Pre-K that is either play-based or better yet a Montessori type with mixed age kids. Just visit schools and look for kids that match your DD's personality & intellect as close as possible and see how they react in the classroom & how the teachers interact with them. I so wish we had started early before school became the issue it is now.

If she is really already capable of doing first grade material, do not put her in a standard PS K class unless the school is willing to either accelerate her or give her work at her level. Depending on your school district, you may need to look for private schools that can meet her educational needs. Some here homeschool their kids successfully but you could think about that down the road when you see how she progresses.

Just my "2 cents".

Hello!

I have a 3.5 year old daughter (also with a May bday!) who sounds a bit like yours! She took the WPPSI III at 3 years, 4 months because my husband's buddy is obtaining his Masters in Pysch and needed some IQ test "subjects" for his class. She scored a FSIQ of 122 and a VIQ of 134. She, also, didn't "perform" to her full potential for many reasons. So I take her scores with a grain of salt (plus a student tester conducted them) but it's still nice to know.

As for Ruf's scales, she touches some Level 3 stuff but I comfortably put her at a Level 2.

We are homeschooling right now and she progressed from PreK to a K/1st level in about 10.5 months.

So, that's my story and "hi" to you! It's nice to find someone with such a close age!!

hi, that's neat that they are so similar in age and were tested at the same age. We actually don't do much academic here so I feel a little guilty hearing how much you have done. What sort of things do you do with her on a typical basis? We do read tons of books and I do talk to her a lot, but that's about it. What does your daughter find to be the most fun right now?

Welcome to the board. I have a very similar situation on my hands. My DD is 3 born in August. Our state's cutoff date is September 1st so DD is one of the youngest in her classes. She was our mindblowing infant and shocked the heck out of us and by age two had mastered all of the kindergarten criteria along with some of the 1st grade.

We, too, decided to place her in a social preschool since social skills tend to be issues for the gifted. HUGE mistake for us and for very similar reasons to what you described. DD was a shell of herself and since she was the baby of the class, the teachers treated her like one and she played along. It was really eye opening for me to realize that we won't be able to follow the typical path which was my dream of public school. I never thought I would be the parent to do private school or homeschooling. Over the summer DD went to a Spanish Immersion summer camp and the director was blown away with her abilities. She, who had never had Spanish before, fully comprehended it by the third day. So when we realized our mistake we considered the Montessori programs and this Spanish Immersion school. The Spanish Immersion academics is about 2 years ahead of public school so at age 3 they are learning kindergarten level but all in Spanish. Even this is eye opening since DD is still ahead of that curriculum but since it is all in Spanish she isn't bored. At least not yet! And the school is willing to work with us so if she needs to be moved up they have no problem doing this. When I called them asking if they might have an opening; they bent over backwards to take her. This could get long winded with issues we had recently so I won't go into it but as of now she is super excited about her school and was talking about all they worked on today which clearly reinforced our choice to move her.

Now, I don't know how bad it is for your daughter in the social preschool but it seems like you are seeing a lot of what we experienced. My daughter has been a very verbal child from a very young age and by 15 months was talking in very complex sentences equal to a 7-8 yr old. Having her in the social preschool she quickly dropped to short 2 to 3 word sentences and just wasn't herself. I suspect she was clowning around and smearing her food all over her face to make the other kids laugh but the teacher saw this as a baby and assumed she couldn't feed herself. They just had no idea. This was a kid that has had amazing fine motor skills since 6 months and has been able to feed herself, including twirling spaghetti on a fork for ever. It wasn't a hard decision to pull her. JMHO, if you are seeing similar things and feel that it isn't the right fit ... definitely pull her because the potential of setting the stage for her early education as an under achiever is already being molded.

And as for Kindergarten ... we have come to similar conclusions that we really can't risk going through the public school system; even though the school she would go to is the best elementary school in this metro area. We know that it would be hard for them to be flexible enough to really do DD any good. Luckily for us ... the Spanish Immersion school is a private school that goes through Kindergarten and will be adding a grade every year until 5th grade. This is of course great so long as the school is still a good fit for our DD. Crossing my fingers this will be the case.

And now that I feel I have turned your post into one all about me!! Sorry ... I just wanted to share that you are not alone and you will find a few members who have similar situations.

My 5 yr old son was evaluated for many of the same reasons as your daughter and right around the same age too. He was 3 yrs 6 mos (and a few weeks if I recall correctly). Ultimately he tested in the 99-99.9% depending on area, they tested using the DAR-II.

He is in K this year and is easily able to do most 2nd grade plus work but he is expected to do the K stuff - with the exception of phonics group he does higher level stuff like grade 1 comprehension or Accelerated Reading quizzes.

I in October met with the principal to get some acceleration going for next year. They are also supposed to be setting up a SST meeting (student study team) so we'll see if we can't get something changed for this year as well.

He is more and more interested in homeschooling though as school has lost most of its appeal to him. He mostly likes his teacher, some of his friends, and recess, lol. He does only go 3 1/2 hrs a day though for K.

I think I may have to wonder about my dd4 as well. She was more than capable of going to K this year at almost 4 (birthday is Sept) but she is much more easygoing so if they keep 1/2 day K I might just let it slide.