Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Documentary about New Yorkers & Kindergarten

The More Child has a link to a documentary on YouTube that follows the adventures(?) of three families trying to get their kids into K in New York.

http://themorechild.com/2009/11/27/documentary-getting-in-kindergarten/

Wow.

Really lovin' my backwoods existence right now.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

Wow. I'm speechless.

I'm glad we don't live in NYC!! I felt so bad for some of those kids having to go through all that just to get into K.

Wow, that's incredible, I had no idea it was like that in NYC!

OK, I will probably regret this, but I can't resist.

We are one of those families.

When this aired (two years ago) I was ripped apart by the NYC Mom population... predominantly for crying in front of my child when we received rejection letters(a terrible mother! no boundaries!), but also for speaking so openly and cavalierly about the very process I was trying to navigate and (take advantage of) (I was trying to get financial aid to private school.)

I agreed to be part of this documentary because I thought it might help me in the process, frankly, and because I thought it would be informative for people. Anyway I had no IDEA of the hornet's nest I was stumbling into.

I had a child I worried about constantly. He was extremely gifted but also so extremely overexciteable and easily bored that any group setting was a huge problem. During the year that this was filmed (he was four) he was experiencing his first exacerbation of what I now realize is PANDAS and am treating as an autoimmune disease. I could not imagine him in a classroom of 30 kids (standard size here) and thought the private school system, with its rigid structures, high standards and small classes was his only hope for being able to go to school.

He took the ERB (WPPSI) and scored almost all 19s, so I thought it was a real possibility. I was deluding myself. The scores caught the schools' attention, but they would never have accepted a child like mine. They could see quite clearly that he would have behavioral problems. (They were right about that.) They want bright kids but not problematic kids. The fact that so many bright kids are also problematic is not a real concern to them, because they have so many kids to choose from.

Anyway this documentary ended up contributing significantly to our pain... and I learned a valuable lesson about the power of the media. (While I had no real problems with the way she edited this film, she had her own agenda obviously and the finished product reflect that more than it reflects our real experience.)

The school situation is terrible for NYC kids, and worst of all for gifted kids who need a little extra love and attention.

I am now homeschooling my son.

Well, nobody here is going to rip you apart; this is a safe place, I'm pretty sure. You clearly face challenges specific to your location that not all of us here do, in addition to those challenges specific to raising a gifted child that the rest of us share. All of your posts here all along have shown so clearly your love for your son, and your desire to do what's best for him. All last year when you were trying to decide what to do about school, I remember feeling such respect for your ability to think through what was going on, and your willingness to swim against the current if you thought it would serve your child best.

I hope that all continues to be well for you and your family.

peace
minnie

Ah - I watched the documentary, and it occurred to me that that child's mother might well be here, and ought to be here if she wasn't already :-)

FWIW I really warmed to you in watching it, and thought your DS came over as a super kid, too, albeit with some problems. I admired your honesty and clear thinking. Of course you shouldn't have cried in front of him [ETA actually subsequent posters in this thread have convinced me I'm wrong about this, which makes me feel better too] - but in that situation I'm sure I would have done too; and I remember thinking that in being aware that he was picking up on the stress, you were one step ahead of people who thought their kids were oblivious to it!

I'm sorry the gifted public school didn't work out, and hope homeschooling is going well for you both.

Bronxmom, I thought you came across really well and I don't think crying in front of him was bad at all.

People cry, its normal and its a good life lesson for your son, especially since he seemed to realize that mum was just a little frustrated and disappointed, at that time. We cant (and shouldn't) always hide how we are feeling (kids know anyway!). Crying is a perfectly natural, normal and harmless emotion and along with open communication can be a great bonding experience. As long as he knew you weren't crying because of him, but because of the school and the process, I don't see the problem at all.

Good luck to you in your future endeavors!

I agree. When I watched it, I had this immediate "oh no" reaction, but I thought about it (before seeing your post) and changed my mind. When I was growing up, I was definitely taught that we should hide our emotions if showing them has the potential for hurting someone else. I hid a lot of things from my parents that I should not have--and my sister even hid the fact that she had been molested. So I am trying to show DD that when you have a strong emotion, or a problem of any kind, you have to express it. You get it out, you deal with it, and you move on. I thought you and your family looked great in the documentary. (And I was totally jealous of your son's little science gear; I wish I could trust my almost-4-year-old with that stuff.)

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you're homeschooling--how wonderful for you and your son.

You are all correct, and I take back the conventional reaction that the crying was wrong. Thanks for making me feel better at the times when I can't control my emotions in front of DS :-)

Bronxmon, Thanks for sharing. That was brave of you and I appreciate it. I think the documentary will help a lot of people just in awareness. Sorry you had some bad outcomes from the documentary. I can relate to the worries. It's wonderful you can homeschool. I hope you create lots of wonderful times of learning.

I enjoyed the films. I'm so far removed from competitive admissions here in my podunk town. It was really interesting to see the three families go through the whole process.

Bronx, I really felt for you and I think your son was simply adorable. I hope things are going well for you now.

I only got a chance to watch the first segment of this documentary and came away thinking how differently I would have viewed it before I discovered the challenges that come with navigating the school system to help my DS get the best situation possible. I don't know how the rest of the segments progressed, but what I saw were parents who are devoted to getting the best for their children in a bad situation. If I had watched this last year, I might have thought them to be "pushy parents" but now, I am just in awe of the challenges they are faced with.

I also came away thinking how sad it is that there are schools out there that 80% of the children read below grade level. It seems that we are failing entire generations of children. If I was looking at a school with a track record like that, I would definitely be jumping through any and all hoops to avoid sending my child there.

I hate reality TV, but watched all of this in one sitting!
I found the parents very likeable and �real� and am glad each of the kids found a place. The love and sacrifice for their children is quite evident.

I first posted the OP on the tail-end of a "hot-housing" thread that discussed the recent article about coaching kids for the various entrance tests (including IQ)... but quickly realized that this didn't belong at all. So I pulled it out into a thread of its own.

The three families followed in this film didn't seem to fit in the "hot-housing" box. Instead, as someone has already said, they were simply busting their tails to make the best for their kids out of a bad (or at best, imperfect) situation. I think any parent here, there & everywhere has the same goal in mind. Thankfully, though, not everyone has to deal with the highly-competitive admissions as highlighted in the film.

I've wondered if there is some sort of bureaucratic lock-down that prevents more schools from entering the market in NYC? Seems like there are more than enough people clamoring for a quality education and who are willing to pay for it.

After seeing this, I have a totally different take on the earlier article on the same subject. Given that some schools went so far as to provide the parents with sample tests for in-home tutoring, I don't know that I would spend much time on my high-horse before tutoring my own child to compete. If I was steeped in the Land of Competition that is NYC, I would almost be doing my child a disservice by not keeping the playing field as level as possible. And if this meant placemats with practice analogies and picture absurdities, well, sign me up for the whole set.

Bronxmom, cheers to you.

Thanks to you all for your supportive words. I was half-tempted to just lay low and see what you said about this... I think I "outed" myself to avoid having to read anything more unpleasant on this subject.

I'm sure you guys can relate to having a kid you can't hide things from. The "crying" scene made me cringe when I saw it, of course, though I can assure you that it did him no harm to see me cry.

And the test-prep thing is a HUGE problem here. I understand the impulse, too, but it totally muddies the waters. I did not prep my kid at all. I was actually looking forward to the "4-year-old" tests, to get some idea of what was going on with my unusual child, so I went out of my way not to prep him.

NYC is a bizarre environment educationally, but it's a great place to home school.

Just finished all 6 parts. Though I don't live in the area I know about how tough it is to get into the desirable schools since my best friend lives in NY with her daughter. But they didn't go through what bronxmom had to endure because they moved there while her DD was in elementary school. Her DD was waitlisted for their first choice but got into another top ranked school and the next year was able to get into the school of choice.

The pressures put on these children are intense to say the least and then you have bronxmom's son who is PG with some difficulties so he doesn't fit the mold. It really saddens me how the process in NY has been allowed to be so selective that they pass up a child like your son because they fear a challenge.

But on the positive side, it sounds like homeschooling has been a great alternative ... but I do have a question and I prefix it with sorry for being naive... How are you able to homeschool if you are a single mother?

......

Not that I need to include this but since you brought it up ... I saw nothing wrong with showing emotions in front of your son. If I was trying to critic you from the footage all I could say is I saw a mom who was struggling with limitations; trying to find the best options for her child. A daunting task!

Bronxmom - I feel for you having to go through that to try to find the right fit for your son. He was (and I'm sure still is) such a cute adorable boy with a wonderful personality. The biggest thing I realized while watching the documentary is that my son wouldn't have fit in or made it through that process. He seems similar in many ways to your son and I think we would have ended up deciding to homeschool him.

I'm glad to hear that homeschooling is going well for you guys. I'm seriously considering it for DS (and I guess DD too then) but am holding out hope that the school will work with us but he just doesn't 'fit in' or so it seems these days.

bronxmom, I thought the documentary was very interesting! I think all the families were portrayed in a positive light, and I felt sympathy for all of you. It seems like such a stressful, inhumane process.

As parents we want to put our children in an environment where they are valued and accepted--where they are wanted. Getting all those rejection letters must feel like no one wants your child. I don't think that's true, though. He's going to be fine... he has so much going for him--most of all, a mom who loves him and nurtures his strengths.

What are these elite schools really doing?

What is the quality of the "eliteness" they are creating?

Sounds to me like they are taking the easiest path.

What if they had objective, "shall admit" criteria and had a truly diverse school?

To answer the question about homeschooling as a single mom: I'm not single now. I do work but I work nights, which made homeschooling even more inevitable.

If you watched that show carefully, you would notice my appearance improving suddenly about halfway through... that's when I fell in love! Ha! For me the most amusing thing about watching this now is tracking the slow and steady improvement of my hair.

As the person whose blog post started this thread :-) I just wanted to say hello to Bronxmom and to everyone who took the time to watch the documentary. What a wonderfully supportive group you are!

I love your blog, btw!

Bronxmom, I love the update! Your son is precious and you went through so much for him. I agree with the above about showing your emotions and explaining things to your child. You can't hide things from bright/gifted kids. I have friends who are shocked by how much I share with my child, nothing inappropriate of course but I do talk to her about emotional things because I know that she is fully aware and I want her to hear about situations from me and not have to interpret things on her own. She knows that she and I can talk and she feels safe and secure knowing that Mom and Dad will take care of things. I fully support you showing your child (especially a boy) that it is ok to be sad, and even ok to cry! Good for you! Congrats on the relationship, congrats on homeschooling and I wish the best for your family in the future.

Bronxmom- I just finished watching it and my heart went out to you the entire time. You genuinely seemed to want to do right by your son and find the best possible educational opportunity that met his needs. I really appreciated that you were honest on the application too!

I'm also delighted that you're in love :-)

I didn't think the parents were painted in a bad light at all. They were working with the system to get a good educational fit for their child. Everyone seemed to agree the hoops you had to jump through were ridiculous . Bronxmom - I loved your honesty about the whole process, and your son is adorable. We are homeschooling also, and it has been a great fit for my out of the box son.

We live in an urban area, so we have some of this (we probably have 50 eligible schools within 15 miles of us ranging from public school to 20K a year). There are wait lists and lotteries and some interviewing for private schools. At least the public schools don't interview I don't think! For gifted public, either you have the test scores or not and then it's by lottery. None of the HG+ schools are near us. We have probably toured or visited about 20 schools.

I'm still glad we don't live in NYC! It seems so completely wrong that so many kids that would test in the top 1 or 2% would not get the gifted services others would get based on their classroom behavior one day at the age of 4 or 5. I can tell my son would have never made this cut.

Oh man, this documentary is going to give me nightmares!!! We're NYers but we're HOPEFULLY going to be moving before DD is school aged. Honestly, I see this documentary as a critique on the system, not on the poor parents trying to do their best within it.

Bronxmom, I have to say I'm surprised you received any complaints about crying in front of your kid. I grew up in a home where my mom was very open with her feelings and I thought that was a HUGE positive. She wasn't perfect by all means but I think that's one thing that she gave me that I intend to pass on to DD. DD are both strong believers in not hiding stuff from your kids (besides,they'll probably figure it out on their own anyways!). Oh, and congrats on falling in love!

I love your response...put a big ole smile on my face. Really happy for you that you found someone and yes I did notice the improvement of the hair. Now if I could bring myself to make an appointment for mine. :P

I finally finished the entire series and I must say bronxmom, I have no negative thoughts of you or your son. He reminds me of DS4 who will start kindy fall 2010. Luckily for me, I have the choice of a gifted magnet school or our public school with a wonderful gifted program (starting in 2nd grade) or homeschooling.

I am sorry the schools didn't recognize all those gifted traits in your son that is so evident to everyone with an active, precocious gifted boy. He would have enriched any school that knows how to draw all those talents out of him. I loved him doing his experiments and all the questions he presented to you. What a wonderful kid he is!!!

Jen

Hello to bronxmom! Wow, I just finished watching all six and I'm still holding back tears! I saw you as a loving and dedicated mom, who was just trying desperately to do what she thought was right at the time. I saw nothing wrong with the crying...I was even crying...I think we just want so much to have everyone believe in, love, and fully embrace our children... And when that doesn't happen, it can be such an emotional letdown. Your son with his science experiments was so fun to watch. I loved seeing his enthusiasm. He reminded me of my dd4. She is always working on her "science experiments" too lol Well, I just wanted to say hello and thank you for sharing your experience. I wish I could give you and your little guy a hug Best wishes to you and your family. You are a great mom!