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LOL - that sounds so familiar, where have I lived that before? And we can be intense and carry things farther than any advice-giver ever imagined. Still, I had a lot of fun back then!

Honestly, It's great that you are teaching him to be independent, but yes, it takes a long long long time. And like the Bamboo tree, you aren't seeing many leaves, but the root system is growing.

From my vantage point, 6 is really really young for a baby-extrovert to amuse himself. My DS13 is perfectly happy without my undivided attention as long as he is watching TV, or playing computer, preferably facebook. And how good are you with time alone with nothing to do? Not that you ever have noting to do, but if you did?

Smiles,
Grinity

Grinity, how do u always figure me out?! I HATE being alone and I get bored so easily with things, especially if I'm unable to interact with people. I think ds is a mini-me, but for some reason that doesn't help me deal with him better. Hopefully with age, he'll develop better coping strategies. We're working on it! Maybe we're just too much alike. I will try to think about this when I'm getting frustrated with him. As usual, thanks for helping me see something that is right in front of my eyes!

Oh my, I was giving suggestions here, feeling glad that DS4 has not been having any meltdowns since past few months and what a day I had. 4 meltdowns in just 5 hours, go figure .

Oh joys! We go through cycles it seems!

Because I just put myself in the situation you describe and ask myself how would perhaps you had better head over to energyparenting.com I had the exact same feeling when I read 'Transforming the Difficult Child,' like they had set up cameras in my home! They say it's for children who are 'Intense, Sensitive and Needy' - well I guess I could say DS is all three. To tell the truth, I feel that for as much information and sensation as he has to handle just going through his day, he is 'Easygoing, Not Over or Under Sensitive, and resourceful.' But compared to what his teachers are used to seeing day after day, yes, he fits the discription, KWIM?

How is parenting with love and logic working out? My concern is that even a calm 'lecture' is still putting attention (reinforcing) negative behavior, when the ignoring from your 5 minute technique allows your son to build inner resources.

Remember your resolve from the other thread to give more free play time? How is that working out. Be determined that if things are cooking at home, get outside and take a play break. You are in no hurry. He is still healing from his school experience. So often, we gifties think that because we can imagine something, it the world must able to give us that right now.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Just took a look at Transforming the Difficult Child and I think we will give it a try here. From the excerpts I read it may help DS a great deal.

Did you get a chance to check it out Jen? I know we have noticed similarities in our children and it sure sounds like it has a lot to offer. If you get a chance let me know what you think.

At my own house. Behavior is in direct correlation with mind activity. Not all days are perfect days for my DD6, but I do my best with a baby in the house to entertain as well. At three, we did take her to a psychologist for some extreme anxiety issues she was experiencing at the time and I really felt that it helped. She went to the psych for about three months and was returning to normal play again after that.

I would say to watch for escalating behaviors for sure. That's a definite red flag to me in our house.

In a pinch, I have her "create" environments out of shoe boxes and whatever materials indoors and outdoors she'd like. Northwest...desert...ocean...etc. That helps when I've not got anything else planned.

I also use a book called "Helping Your Anxious Child" which I adapted for my own use with a younger child. It helped. Negative reinforcement is not real effective at our house either. Although, I do still use some form of 1,2,3 or love and logic depending on the situation. Sometimes I just need time-out for my own sake.

But, like I said...I can tell when a change is needed because her behavior goes from bad to worse pretty quickly. And most often what's needed it MORE brain activity!!!

Good Luck, I'm also going to take a peek at Transforming the Difficult Child.

Thanks everyone. I will also check out Transforming the Difficult Child. This week, we've spent a lot of time talking about alternatives to emotional meltdowns. His knee-jerk reaction is still the tantrum, but he has been stopping himself VERY quickly and choosing one of the other alternatives:

1.Taking a deep breath and pretending to blow a bubble very slowly.
2.Asking for a hug.
3.Taking a break for a full minute and then going back to the task at hand.
4.Simply asking for help. I require him to be very specific about what kind of help he needs.

I told him we can add to the list as he finds more appropriate outlets that work for him.

Grinity, there was another time you pegged me when you said, "Is it just the noise that bothers you, Mom? Exactly what about the meltdown bothers you so much?" I've thought about that, and I really feel like some of this is me. The tantrums are a big deal to me because I don't know how to handle them. I'm supposed to be able to solve all problems, right? (I don't know where ds gets his perfecionism from?! haha) Also, the more I read about ADHD, the more convinced I am that I have it. I am impulsive, have difficulty sticking with things that don't interest me, jump from one thing to the next (i.e., discipline strategies), am disorganized, hate following a prescribed schedule, and forget things A LOT, etc. I'm sure there are more symptoms. Ds needs consistency, order, and routine, so I have to work really hard on that for his sake and mine.

crazydaisy-downtime is our enemy here. If ds's mind is not engaged, that's when I see the most meltdowns. Also, if he's hungry, his mind is not focused and he loses it completely. The problem is he doesn't ask for food, so I have to be really good about feeding him on a schedule (lots of little snacks), and like I said I'm just great at schedules!

By the way, you may already know this, but I found it very helpful...last school year we were seeing the meltdowns at school too. The school counselor, who happens to be a licensed mental health counselor, said that any behavior mod strategy you try should be done for a minimum of 21 consecutive days to become habit. She said if you skip days, you'll just have to do it longer before it becomes ingrained. That's what we did with the 5 minute time-outs. It completely eliminated the meltdowns (for a time). We stopped doing it b/c we didn't need to anymore. Now theeeey'reeee baaaaackkkk! We've started it again, so we'll see if it works the same way this time

What I get from Parenting from Love and Logic is allowing natural consequences to teach a lesson rather than a gentle lecture. I see the five minute break as a natural consequence in that people don't want to be around you when you're yelling and crying. I present it this way rather than as a punishment. Ds will even say, "is this a punishment?!" Sometimes I'll say, "no, you just need a break, and so do I." Usually, I just ignore and hold up 5 fingers.

I struggle with trying to always create the perfect atmosphere in my home. My dad says I'm just as hard on myself as ds is on himself. We probably all need to relax a little. Wish I knew how! Dear God, I'm turning into my mother, the Queen of Worry! I know she meant well, but her parenting created the perfectionism that I struggle with today. (Not that I blame her or anything! hehe) I don't want to do the same with ds.

Thanks again guys. I have learned as much about myself in the past few months as I have about my son!

JenSMP,
Maybe you do have ADHD, or ADHD 'trait' - first question you have to ask is: 'Is my life working or failing?' If your life is working (I didn't say perfect, you don't have a disorder! You might have the trait though!)
On the other hand, you may find books on ADHD to be helpful. I'm reading one right now:

www.amazon.com/ADD-Friendly-Ways-Organize-Your-Life/dp/1583913580

that is just making me laugh and laugh, because I've already adopted 99% of those suggestions just through trial and error and Flylady.net. I think of myself as HG, maybe PG in my big strength area/ADHD 'trait'/Perfectionist (harsh judger)/Bird's eye view thinker so lots of things that are easy for other people are hard for me, and lots of things that are just impossible for other people are easy for me. I spent years trying on one diagnosis after another, trying to figure out what was 'wrong' with me, that I was so 'different.' Then my son hit school, and the rest is history!

Flylady.net was a tremendous help to me, and I have lots fewer 'low moods' since adopting her ways of living. Accepting myself as an 'unusually gifted' person has helped so much as well, but it did take me a few years. I was on a gifted parenting board at the time, and it had an barely used 'Adult Gifted' section. Sure enough, every 3 months I would be on there, ranting about DH and replaying all our verbal arguments and the ways we hurt each other. You could set your calendar by it.

What I like about 'transforming' is that it is written in a very confident way, and that has given me the courage to 'take deep breaths' when my family members are acting out, and feel like I AM doing it 'Right' no matter what the other person does. Slowly over the last 3 months, with slips here and there, things are changing for the better at my house. Transforming the Difficult Child is as much about Transforming the Intense/Sensitive/Standards-out-of-whack Parent as it is about changing the child.

BTW, I like to tease 'Perfectionistic' out into various threads. ((1000 words for snow, right?))
Part of gifted perfectionism is that we grew up without any reliable reference, and we continue to function with any reliable reference. My mom (Hi Mom in Heaven!) maintained for many years that we were normal, and happend to live in a 'way below average town' filled with 'way below average intelligence' people. Ok, I'm being generous with her words here - you know what she called 'them.'

I couldn't use my classmates as reference. I used the fictional characters in books. I thought that if I was less upbeat than Pippi Longstockings, less brave and loving than Anne Frank, less plucky than Breezus that I must be a terrible failure. Can you wonder that I judged myself harshly? But with my intensity, the characters in the books seems so real, more than flesh people all around me!

JenSMP, do you have a list of self-nurturing things that you can do for yourself? Seems to me that if you are going to make a go of this, then you are going to have to get good sleep, reasonable amounts of excercise, healthy food, avoid the little bad habits that don't agree with you if there are any (caffiene, sugar, romantic movies, you know what I mean)carve out nurturing social time for yourself, date night with DH, enough artistic/intellectual stimulation, etc. Great news is that if you couldn't do it for your own sake, soon it will become pretty obvious that if you want to avoid becoming your mom, you have to do this, for your son's sake. That should help!

Smiles,
Grinity

Great List! Good Job! Great to see that he is responding to what you are teaching him!

Smiles,
Grinity